Re: [gaia] Blog on AFRINIC proposal

Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> Mon, 05 June 2017 07:25 UTC

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From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 08:24:55 +0100
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To: Amreesh Phokeer <amreesh.phokeer@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [gaia] Blog on AFRINIC proposal
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decentralisation and wider adoption of new internet architectures with
wider edge centric deployments, enabling an ecosystem of local content
generation etc are good technical routes imho.

On 5 June 2017 at 08:21, Amreesh Phokeer <amreesh.phokeer@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the first and foremost aim of the authors of the policy was to
> send a strong message to governments..."if you shut us down, we (AFRINIC
> community) can also shut you (governments) down. But of course this is
> completely flawed as much as the intent of the policy is laudable. Whenever
> you concentrate power in the hands of a central authority, there is always
> a potential for abuse.
>
> Of course, as suggested, advocacy, education, solidarity are better
> routes....but those are a long walk to freedom. I think, we as a global
> community, should work on technologies that would make censorship,
> surveillance and Internet shutdown extremely hard to operate and true
> decentralization might be one of them.
>
> --
> Amreesh
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 3:36 AM, Alejandro Acosta <
> alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>   In my small and personal experience the people who ask for shutting
>> down networks don't mind (not even a little) the economical impact (hard to
>> believe & sad to say it but unfortunately it's the truth).
>>
>> Alejandro,
>>
>> El 4/6/17 a las 10:56 a.m., Vint Cerf escribió:
>>
>> one answer is to try to quantify the economic (and reputational?) impact
>> of shutdown so that leaders who choose to adopt this action have a better
>> appreciation of the costs.
>>
>> v
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Corinne Cath <corinnecath@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Great discussion! And I agree with much of what has been said. But that
>>> still leaves us with the open question of what the response of AFRINIC
>>> should be to shutdowns. I agree this proposal was problematic (as I point
>>> out in the blog), but am interested to hear what advocacy, support, and
>>> solidarity by AFRINIC could/should look like in the case of Internet
>>> shutdowns.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Jon Crowcroft <
>>> jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> the problem with witholding a resource as a lever to try to reduce
>>>> censorship
>>>> (witholding of access to the net) is that its
>>>> a) an implicitly negative message to counter a negative message,
>>>> which takes the risk of accusations of hypocrisy
>>>> b) it risks collective punishment
>>>> i.e. hurts victims of governments' misguided policy,
>>>> as well as government agency, which is over-reach
>>>> c) the proposal is the opposite of basic internet philosophy, as per
>>>> Gilmore :
>>>> *"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."*
>>>> which means that the proposal risks undermining citizen/peer actions
>>>>
>>>> intentions are good, but advocacy, support, solidarity seems like a
>>>> better road
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Nicolas Pace <nico@libre.ws> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Vint for sharing your point of view.
>>>>> If I may give my two cents, through advocacy is that, in the summit
>>>>> here in nayrobi the community all together wrote the proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> There needs to be stronger efforts to make internet less
>>>>> country-dependant and more resilient... But these are urgent matters. While
>>>>> we get to that resilient future, we need to support our communities on
>>>>> their decisions regarding their own problematics.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that IP address may seem to be a technical thing, but
>>>>> governments are hijacking them into a political standpoint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of making this a specific action, I would suggest that we
>>>>> could work out a regulation that requires IP tenants not to shutdown
>>>>> connectivity as a condition to receive their ranges... Or some sort of
>>>>> agreement on openness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could it be possible, and would it be useful to tackle this issue?
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On June 3, 2017 4:41:04 PM GMT+03:00, Vint Cerf <vint@google.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I implied it: advocacy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> v
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Nicolas Pace <nico@libre.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What would be your approach on this matter then? I'm curious to know
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On June 3, 2017 4:36:36 PM GMT+03:00, Vint Cerf <vint@google.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My reaction: politicizing IP address allocation is a mistake and
>>>>>>>> could have enormous, negative consequences including a wide range of
>>>>>>>> fragmentation and legal intimidation of the RIRs.  Advocacy is fine but
>>>>>>>> withholding IP addresses for political reasons is not wise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> v
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Corinne Cath <corinnecath@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> CFR invited me to write a blog about the recent AFRINIC proposal
>>>>>>>>> to deny IP addresses to governments mandating Internet shutdowns. Might be
>>>>>>>>> of interest.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.cfr.org/article/should-technical-actors-play-pol
>>>>>>>>> itical-role-internet-age
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Corinne J.N. Cath
>>>>>>>>> Ph.D. Candidate, Oxford Internet Institute & Alan Turing Institute
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Web: www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath
>>>>>>>>> Email: ccath@turing.ac.uk & corinnecath@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> Twitter: @C_Cath
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> gaia mailing list
>>>>>>>>> gaia@irtf.org
>>>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> New postal address:
>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>> 1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor
>>>>>>>> Reston, VA 20190
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> New postal address:
>>>>>> Google
>>>>>> 1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor
>>>>>> Reston, VA 20190
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> gaia mailing list
>>>>> gaia@irtf.org
>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Corinne J.N. Cath
>>> Ph.D. Candidate, Oxford Internet Institute & Alan Turing Institute
>>>
>>> Web: www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath
>>> Email: ccath@turing.ac.uk & corinnecath@gmail.com
>>> Twitter: @C_Cath
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> New postal address:
>> Google
>> 1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor
>> Reston, VA 20190
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Amreesh Phokeer
>
> _______________________________________________
> gaia mailing list
> gaia@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>
>


-- 
Arjuna Sathiaseelan
Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d