Re: [gaia] controversial paper for CNs

Roger Baig Viñas <roger.baig@guifi.net> Tue, 22 December 2015 12:24 UTC

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To: Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu>, Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk>
References: <CAPaG1AmFArE4MbY8bi3VmAJHotagfApxs6EfsuFFBKk=ZuLe-A@mail.gmail.com> <5674035C.8020803@guifi.net> <CAPaG1A=yqcWJ8FEn-senyjU6hJOd4QkVnxNmiMC8-YC4T8dBkg@mail.gmail.com> <6DC62F66-1ADB-4D99-8901-B5D5F725AEFD@ac.upc.edu>
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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 13:24:09 +0100
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Subject: Re: [gaia] controversial paper for CNs
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Hi,

Regarding guifi.net, I totally agree with Leandro's points. Obviously
the project is constantly benefiting from technological advances but I
wouldn't say that guifi.net is actively contributing to push this
innovation forward (specially in comparison with other CNs like
Freifunk, Ninux, etc.). As I have already said many times, in my
opinion, the key contributions of guifi.net are, on the one hand, the
vision and conceptualisation achievements, and, on the other hand, the
usage of the technologies available (e.g. the web) to lower the entry
barriers for participation.

Regards.

On 12/22/2015 10:21 AM, Leandro Navarro wrote:
> 
>> On 22 Dec 2015, at 08:07, Arjuna Sathiaseelan 
>> <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk 
>> <mailto:arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Roger -
>> 
>> In a recent call with Steve Song and Jane Coffin we were
>> discussing why Guifi was successful and Steve nicely mentioned
>> the social structures/community cohesion are very important and
>> Jane Coffin pointed out about Guifi's business models.
>> 
>> Was wondering if technological innovation in Guifi had a role to
>> play with too?
> Hi, I agree that social structures that enable, support,
> coordinates, regulates socio-economic interaction: the “ecosystem”,
> is key for develop a sustainable infrastructure.
> 
> I’d say guifi.net <http://guifi.net> is not driven by taking
> advantage of bleeding edge tech per se, but more in the
> socialisation of tech: guifi has been able to develop
> knowledge/ways/tools/best-practices to apply commoditised tech
> (e.g. low cost WiFi or Fibre, existing and new routing protocols,
> net services) in the hands of normal citizens.
> 
> For instance a decade ago they created a local web site to share 
> knowledge about how-to-do things required to combine inexpensive
> devices to setup a network in the ISM band. Sharing knowledge to
> reduce barriers is a key point. The guifi.net <http://guifi.net>
> site and tools were key to simplify the deployment of network as it
> was able to automatically create config files for a wide range of
> hardware devices so expanding the network was simple and almost
> error free. Similarly they found a way to let people to contribute
> funding to expand critical links in the network, before 
> crowdsourcing was defined.
> 
> Not only socialisation to private citizens but also creating
> business opportunities for locals to earn a living from
> installation, maintenance, expansion, provision of services over
> the underlying network, …
> 
> 
> Regards, Leandro.
> 
>> 
>> regards
>> 
>> On 18 December 2015 at 13:00, Roger Baig Viñas
>> <roger.baig@guifi.net <mailto:roger.baig@guifi.net>> wrote:
>> 
> Hi Arjuna,
> 
> On 12/17/2015 03:00 AM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan wrote:
>>>>> thought I will ignite some discussions on this paper which
>>>>> I think makes some controversial claims on the role mesh
>>>>> networks for enabling connectivity especially with the
>>>>> success of CNs around the globe:
>>>>> http://www.jwcn.eurasipjournals.com/content/2008/1/274790
>>>>> 
>>>>> they state: "Our conclusions are intentionally
>>>>> controversial to stimulate a discussion among researchers
>>>>> and industry. We argue that wireless mesh networks will not
>>>>> be deployed for user access—at least from an economic point
>>>>> of view. Instead, they will be financed to increase the
>>>>> automation of remotely controlled devices, such as meters
>>>>> for gas or heating, parking meters, and traffic lights,
>>>>> whereas the financial contributions of users will be 
>>>>> dismal."
>>>>> 
>>>>> if the authors revisited this paper now - what would
>>>>> change?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looking forward to hear from the community network folks
>>>>> :)
> 
> At least I would suggest to:
> 
> 1) Include the consideration of the effect of the introduction of
> wired-links, at least in the backbone. Our vision is to have three
> of four wireless hops at most everywhere.
> 
> 2) Avoid the idea of a totally unplanned network made out of
> ultra-cheap devices. Obviously the performance of a WiFi 10€ router
> should not be comparable to a >1000€ wired router.
> 
> 3) Include the social economics in the economics section
> (otherwise you will observe inexplicable behaviours).
> 
> Best regards.
> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> regards
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal:
>>>>> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab:
>>>>> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia
>>>>> mailing list gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org> 
>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>>>>> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing
>>> list gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org> 
>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal:
>> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab:
>> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d 
>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing
>> list gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org> 
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
> 
> -- Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro
> http://dsg.ac.upc.edu
> 

- -- 
Roger Baig Viñas
Fundació Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net

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