Re: [gaia] [5gangip] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid
Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu> Thu, 14 January 2016 08:32 UTC
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From: Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu>
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: [5gangip] [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid
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Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:22:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: [gaia] [5gangip] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid
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Hi Diego, yes, that’s true: Even with TLS you can essentially only rely on communication privacy for the connection from your application to the next CDN node (that represents the application/content provider). You have no control over what happens to your requests, meta data, resources in the CDN and application service domain (in the current model). The trusted middleboxes in the ISP domain (unless you are talking about CDN nodes) will go away or at least look very different soon – when mainstream CDN rolls out HTTP/2 support. Cheers, Dirk From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA [mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com] Sent: Samstag, 2. Januar 2016 23:29 To: Dirk Kutscher Cc: Michael Welzl; icnrg@irtf.org; gaia; stackevo-discuss@iab.org; Jon Crowcroft; 5gangip@ietf.org; marnew@iab.org; dtn-interest@irtf.org Subject: Re: [5gangip] [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid In a world of clouds the concept of E2E security becomes somehow cloudy, if you allow me the easy pun. At least at the provider clouds I see many of those trusted middleboxes now… Be goode, On 17 Dec 2015, at 11:10 , Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu<mailto:Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu>> wrote: Regarding security, unless we want to introduce “trusted middleboxes”, Why not? No e2e security. That may be OK for some use cases, like IoT or home GWs, but could be less convincing for accessing public network services -- for example, if you extend the network with multiple hops of device-to-device communication, data mules etc. Dirk object encryption and authentication seems to be the way. Of course there are other challenges for that, too – key management for example. -- Dirk From: crowcroft@gmail.com<mailto:crowcroft@gmail.com> [mailto:crowcroft@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jon Crowcroft Sent: Donnerstag, 17. Dezember 2015 08:57 To: Dirk Kutscher Cc: dtn-interest@irtf.org<mailto:dtn-interest@irtf.org>; stackevo-discuss@iab.org<mailto:stackevo-discuss@iab.org>; icnrg@irtf.org<mailto:icnrg@irtf.org>; gaia; marnew@iab.org<mailto:marnew@iab.org>; 5gangip@ietf.org<mailto:5gangip@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [gaia] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Great article...one thing about the 4g..5g evolution is increasing cooperation in forwarding and relaying signal, bits, packets (shared cell tower/base station/antennae across provider). So direct,mesh,adhoc stop just being edge notions, but are all first class part of the architecture ("don't fear the edge"). There is huge tension between this trend, and e2e security....I have not seen anyone address how to resolve that tension... On 16 Dec 2015 6:42 pm, "Dirk Kutscher" <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu<mailto:Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu>> wrote: [apologies for cross-posting] Hi, I have written up a few thoughts on current discussions around 5G and network evolution. I might publish this as paper later, but wanted to get it out early and ask for comments – so would be grateful for any feedback. It’s not very polished and slightly long, but hopefully understandable enough. Take it as a “position paper” for now. Abstract: Current 5G network discussion are often focusing on providing more comprehensive and integrated orchestration and management functions in order to improve “end-to-end” managebility and programmability, derived from NGMN and similar requirements. While these are important challenges, this memo takes the perspective that in order to arrive at a more powerful network, it is important to understand the pain points and the reasons for certain design choices of today’s networks. Understanding the drivers for traffic management systems, middleboxes, CDNs and other application-layer overlays should be taken as a basis for analyzing 5G uses cases and their requirements. In this memo, I am making the point that many of today’s business needs and the ambitious 5G use cases do call for a more powerful data forwarding plane, taking ICN as an example. Features of such a forwarding plane would include better support for heterogeneous networks (access networks and whole network deployments), multi-path communication, in-network storage and implementation of operator policies. This would help to avoid overlay silos and finally simplify network management. http://dirk-kutscher.info/posts/5g-its-the-network-stupid/ Thanks, Dirk _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org<mailto:gaia@irtf.org> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia _______________________________________________ Stackevo-discuss mailing list Stackevo-discuss@iab.org<mailto:Stackevo-discuss@iab.org> https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/stackevo-discuss _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org<mailto:gaia@irtf.org> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia _______________________________________________ 5gangip mailing list 5gangip@ietf.org<mailto:5gangip@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip -- "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" Dr Diego R. Lopez Telefonica I+D http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com<mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com> Tel: +34 913 129 041 Mobile: +34 682 051 091 ---------------------------------- ________________________________ Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it. Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição
- [gaia] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Dirk Kutscher
- Re: [gaia] [5gangip] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [gaia] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [gaia] [5gangip] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Dirk Kutscher
- Re: [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Networ… Michael Welzl
- Re: [gaia] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Dirk Kutscher
- Re: [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Networ… Michael Welzl
- Re: [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Networ… Dirk Kutscher
- Re: [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Networ… Dirk Kutscher
- Re: [gaia] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Nishanth Sastry
- Re: [gaia] [5gangip] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid David Michael Taht
- Re: [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Networ… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [gaia] [5gangip] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid AshwoodsmithPeter
- Re: [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Networ… Nishanth Sastry
- Re: [gaia] [5gangip] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid Linda Dunbar
- Re: [gaia] [dtn-interest] 5G: It's the Network, S… Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's the Networ… Joe Touch
- Re: [gaia] [5gangip] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's … DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
- Re: [gaia] [5gangip] [Stackevo-discuss] 5G: It's … Dirk Kutscher