[Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-alakuijala-brotli-09
Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> Thu, 28 April 2016 15:37 UTC
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From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
To: draft-alakuijala-brotli.all@ietf.org
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:35:05 -0400
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Cc: General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>
Subject: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-alakuijala-brotli-09
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I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. For more information, please see the FAQ at < http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>. Document: draft-alakuijala-brotli-09 Reviewer: Paul Kyzivat Review Date: 2016-04-28 IETF LC End Date: 2016-04-08 IESG Telechat date: 2016-05-05 Summary: This draft has serious issues, described in the review, and needs to be rethought. (Note: I first wrote this against -08 for an earlier telechat date. But it was rescheduled and -09 was released, so I'm resending it. I reviewed the changes between -08 and -09, and they don't affect my review.) Major: 2 Minor: 0 Nits: 0 ========== (1) Major: It is unclear to me whether this document seeks to be an authoritative specification of the Brotli format, or simply an explanation of the format the supplements another specification. Evidence that it intends to be normative: - The introduction states: "The purpose of this specification is to define a lossless compressed data format..." and "This specification is intended for use by software implementers to compress data into and/or decompress data from the brotli format." - I had some discussion with the author after my Last Call review. In that discussion I learned of three successful attempts to create new implementations of Brotli using earlier versions of this document, without reference to another implementation. Evidence that it doesn't intend to be normative: - The intended status is Informational. - There is no 2119 or similar language in the document - The document provides a URL on github for an open source implementation. (However this is not a normative reference. There is no Reference section in the document.) If this document is intended to be normative, then it should be restructured as such, using 2119 language, with actual references to stable documents, and with more clarity. If this document is intended to be informative, then it should be restructured to formally identify the normative specification of the format, and then concentrate on supplementing that document with further explanation. (2) Major: If this document intends to be normative, *I* don't think it is sufficient for the task. I said the same in my Last Call review. I subsequently learned from the author that others have successfully used to create implementations, so perhaps my judgement is too harsh, but I remain concerned. I was told that an implementer spent 20-40 hours understanding this document sufficiently to create a decoder. (Distinct from the time required to do the implementation.) Perhaps the format is inherently difficult and such level of effort to understand it is expected. That is more effort than I was prepared to exert for a Gen-ART review. But without doing that I can't suggest how to improve the description. The following is from my Last Call review: I spent many hours trying to decipher the document, but ultimately failed. (I have no experience in implementing compression/decompression algorithms, but I have many decades of programming experience including that involving detailed bit manipulation and data representation.) If two expert programmers were asked to independently build encoder/decoders in accord with this document, IMO it would be incredibly unlikely (impossible) that the resulting programs would be interoperable. And given the complexity of the encoding it would also be extremely difficult to figure out *why* they didn't interoperate. My sense from reading this document is that the format is operationally defined by an existing program (https://github.com/google/brotli) and that this document is an attempt to re-render the source code in English. However the algorithms being described are so complex that English (at least *this* English) is inadequate for the job. I started out making notes about particular places where I found the language confusing or ambiguous. But there were so many that I ultimately gave up. I have serious doubts that the goal of this document achievable using natural language text. I don't have much of an idea of what to try to achieve this. It will take much more than just patching the current document. If possible at all it will require a vastly different approach. To achieve the goal of having a specification independent of a particular implementation it may be necessary to abandon backward compatibility with *this* implementation. (I recognize that doing so may be unacceptable.)
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Paul Kyzivat
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-ietf-i… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Uma Chunduri
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-ietf-i… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-ie… Jari Arkko
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-… Paul Kyzivat
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Tal Mizrahi
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Tal Mizrahi
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Tal Mizrahi
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Tal Mizrahi
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Paul Kyzivat
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-ietf-n… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-i… Jari Arkko
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-alaku… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-a… Zoltan Szabadka
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-a… Paul Kyzivat
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-alakui… Paul Kyzivat
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-alakui… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-al… Jari Arkko
- [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-ietf-b… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Telechat review of draft-ie… Jari Arkko