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[Gen-art] Re: [TLS] Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03

John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Tue, 09 June 2026 12:16 UTC

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From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: Bas Westerbaan <bas=40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "jmh@joelhalpern.com" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Thread-Topic: [TLS] Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03
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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2026 12:15:52 +0000
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Subject: [Gen-art] Re: [TLS] Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03
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>My guess is that only https://github.com/tlswg/tls-mldsa/pull/36 will have WG support.

- The idea that the server can use the client random to protect against side-channel attacks is obviously wrong.
- The server random and the ML-DSA rnd value might be generated by completely different random number generators with different quality. It is not clear that the ML-DSA rnd can be replaced by server random.
- The server random and the ML-DSA rnd value are used in different parts of the input and could affect side-channel behavior in different ways.

This PR should not be merged in its current form. It makes very strong statements ("do not apply") with little motivation. I think more analysis would be needed even to support weaker statements. I do not think the draft should, or needs to, say anything about deterministic versus hedged signing.

Cheers,
John Preuß Mattsson

From: Bas Westerbaan <bas=40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Tuesday, 9 June 2026 at 13:46
To: jmh@joelhalpern.com <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc:
<tls@ietf.org>; gen-art@ietf.org <gen-art@ietf.org>
Subject: [TLS] Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-tls-mldsa-03

Hi Joel,

Thanks for the review.

Minor issues: The security considerations section seems remarkably light.  It
may be correct.

Original intention was to keep the security considerations specific to anything particular about the use of ML-DSA in TLS and refer to existing documents (FIPS 204, RFC 8446) for generally applicable considerations.

The working group has certainly thought a lot more about it then these short few words might suggest. Among others, the WG discussed several changes: whether to mention composites (hybrids); whether to discuss hedged vs deterministic signing; and whether to repeat general guidance.  My guess is that only https://github.com/tlswg/tls-mldsa/pull/36 will have WG support.

Best,

Bas

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