Re: [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-14
Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> Tue, 17 December 2019 19:13 UTC
Return-Path: <alissa@cooperw.in>
X-Original-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EB8120C9E; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:13:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=Ta8lSSM1; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=NjWulq0W
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IENGOeAJp_do; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:13:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBEC81208D2; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:13:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C241B5BB; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:13:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:13:31 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= from:message-id:content-type:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; s=fm1; bh=Mt6VKN0Pivx/zvfPFj82d6X rAplq78Mnlq0m4GGN0p0=; b=Ta8lSSM12wJDnSkUQupPfqEj8RBJ5WtUCy7Ueap oHcJr60JoWQJn8QS10LuzumsTHzLP1IjKcmjduphUIGLBwzpuLhXlOWvsJmhik6T 3zv8qVEWa8un4b4jZUldEGZDoiy1fbRSE3LtHi7dTLbmKOvqYR8m8ezububDkOQJ 03fKPW+mFICIqIa5aHWzq6E5Lo0eFHBvg4pA+9vbd8/KCj9Vw7bUWV6GL6DCStkk cr+tyDv6Uboh3qLzhdl6rku7h1sSQAOTvO+0+OOf32ghh3iupAZiHoF8TQXtsmV+ OsgyQpp6jUoFKg9C/YNQvkpojuTSS4J/ET3lDGYWmoa/HAw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Mt6VKN 0Pivx/zvfPFj82d6XrAplq78Mnlq0m4GGN0p0=; b=NjWulq0WqjrBsrzGNa78H+ 3Hu/k/oBoxTVbZH9iOj9REwYjDRluCVwTnq7a6f0l2C3ErTAMBs/scigMuiNN6js 8iCfEULzzlabmSTzPpJZPS9rfNkOlwB/7ii3JfMTGPiNJjqkRZR9fZ83W11Mzdt2 ZFs0PFzZ0Kr9RwwIHMwJOKOJXRHtW2G6ARWaU1Fdit75RMQeObZbioNxFJAhywrC ImXPGNc5/lLT4hW4YhhxpnuNsCf0yocuDVyq7cYugda4IOAxYGFRkKTvmHlppm3Q RyiA6aPnejD8WPBUORPHCEaWduenwmFU35wf3ieI395RrLPkJwH4zgxw3N8UrHdg ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:2Sj5XemXWcKA0dTGfWvM4AXm25EGToAcNK7445bzoN98-F7zHmH5Vw>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddtjedguddvudcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhkfgtggfuffgjvfhfofesrgdtmherhhdtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlihhs shgrucevohhophgvrhcuoegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnqeenucffohhmrg hinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudejfedrfeekrddu udejrdeltdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprghlihhsshgrsegtohhophgvrh ifrdhinhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:2Sj5XdVbZA9Gb5WwdTvHEj62uMMUvwI3l6kCgU5bWGSpUgYJ0pgtFw> <xmx:2Sj5XSuOPKADIyKZQ_uFB1dfF27-ceeZ5hmZAfqWFqlJ3bs16DiAzg> <xmx:2Sj5XQo02EoT_jgDq56Lu7Z7htQ_PZtX5je-AQPaQLsvyj6gnD-bzg> <xmx:2ij5XZbJOO1hmJJWl_vxqVY1-8ZIwg3whPem-JE76CFeu7Rvncdvtg>
Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.90]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8856930600E0; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:13:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
Message-Id: <2C32F746-B872-4E16-88D0-F9EECB7526F5@cooperw.in>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_17BB83E2-F916-4C09-A0E8-2664CFB83485"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\))
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:13:27 -0500
In-Reply-To: <5a4014b2-c187-ac3b-b65a-06824c305f1c@isode.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-cellar-ebml.all@ietf.org
To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
References: <157564834306.20915.14892581266236819776@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4014b2-c187-ac3b-b65a-06824c305f1c@isode.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/gGFbzZn29_D34Z4AzrIpOCKGsBQ>
Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-14
X-BeenThere: gen-art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "GEN-ART: General Area Review Team" <gen-art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gen-art/>
List-Post: <mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:13:43 -0000
Robert, thanks for your reviews of this document. I entered a No Objection ballot, supporting Adam’s DISCUSS about the abstract and requesting direct responses to Gen-ART reviews by email in the future. More below. > On Dec 16, 2019, at 8:49 AM, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > Thank you for your review and my apologies for slow response: > On 06/12/2019 16:05, Robert Sparks via Datatracker wrote: >> Reviewer: Robert Sparks >> Review result: Not Ready >> >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your >> document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >> >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >> >> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>. >> >> Document: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-14 >> Reviewer: Robert Sparks >> Review Date: 2019-12-06 >> IETF LC End Date: 2019-11-07 >> IESG Telechat date: 2019-12-19 >> >> This is just a copy of my LC review of -13 (to which I received no response): >> >> Summary: Not ready for publication as a Proposed Standard >> >> I had previously reviewed version -09 of this document. Thanks for addressing >> many of the issues I had raised at that time. My re-review has focused mainly >> on the diff between -09 and -13. It was surprisingly hard to make useful diffs >> between these versions, but it was possible to do so by separating out some >> reordered sections and comparing them separately. >> >> I still find this document difficult to comprehend. >> >> While not all of the issues I raised were addressed, I don't feel strongly >> enough about them to repeat them. However, there is one major issue still >> outstanding that is something the AD should handle. >> >> (Attention Alexey) : It's not clear that this group is chartered to produce a >> general purpose binary equivalent to XML. Instead, it appears to be chartered >> to document FFV1 and Matroska. > CELLAR is chartered to do the latter. >> EBML as it is currently used for those things >> needs to be documented, but rather than try to make it into a format that other >> things besides the work of this group appears out of scope. If I'm correct, >> then this document shouldn't need to create an IANA registry - it need only >> document what the group needs (and if the group needs more later, it can update >> this document). > I don't find your proposal to NOT create an IANA registry to be a compelling way of restricting use of EBML. Whether or not CELLAR is chartered to do binary equivalent to XML, I don't think there is a need to prohibit its use in other context, assuming it is a well defined format. > > I agree with Alexey here. Thanks, Alissa > However I would like to know if the WG is expecting [many] other registrations in the to-be-created IANA registry. >> The abstract and introduction would need to be adjusted to >> scope the purpose of the format to supporting the work of this group. > The Introduction was updated recently and it now says: > The goal of this document is to define a generic, binary, space- > efficient format that can be used to define more complex formats > using an EBML Schema. EBML is used by the multimedia container > Matroska (https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/ <https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/>). > The applicability of EBML for other use cases is beyond the scope of > this document. > This looks adequate to me. > The Abstract might be a bit more optimistic about scope of EBML. Can you maybe suggest some improvements to the Abstract to make the scope clear? > > Best Regards, > > Alexey >> My review >> assumes a scope of "documenting these existing formats" rather than providing a >> general purpose markup language. If I'm wrong and this group is chartered to >> produce an alternative for other protocols to use, this needs review from >> people who are more expert in that kind of representational design than me. >> > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art
- [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-ce… Robert Sparks via Datatracker
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-iet… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-iet… Alissa Cooper