Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-core-senml-versions-02

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Mon, 03 May 2021 20:25 UTC

Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52F53A0E49; Mon, 3 May 2021 13:25:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.918
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f6VCa2sy-qD2; Mon, 3 May 2021 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4B0E3A0E48; Mon, 3 May 2021 13:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcb12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.203.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FYvcQ0XRSzybX; Mon, 3 May 2021 22:25:42 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.6\))
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Priority: 3
In-Reply-To: <18c57dfc-733c-4148-aafc-1cd01e050624@email.android.com>
Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 22:25:41 +0200
Cc: Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, draft-ietf-core-senml-versions.all@ietf.org, gen-art@ietf.org
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 641766341.488434-3b89dc213632d4349c6777d9915f3a12
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <CA1BE49C-1B57-4992-8CCA-6A65F8500B42@tzi.org>
References: <18c57dfc-733c-4148-aafc-1cd01e050624@email.android.com>
To: Elwyn Davies <elwynd@folly.org.uk>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.6)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/loYSwiBM5DGIBR4Z9vDQl17VX7o>
Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-core-senml-versions-02
X-BeenThere: gen-art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "GEN-ART: General Area Review Team" <gen-art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gen-art/>
List-Post: <mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 20:25:50 -0000

On 2021-05-03, at 22:10, Elwyn Davies <elwynd@folly.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Carsten.
> 
> My understanding is....
> 
> RFC editor position: use single quotes for everything.  

Wasn’t that way for my first 42 RFCs :-)

> Standard US view apparently.

US view is actually rather unanimously double quotes (outside any outer double quotes, see below).  You can find various inflections points in 1812 and 1908, where people have briefly suggested other ways, but only the British have largely (but not universally) stuck with single quotes.

> British position (my version): long passages, especially direct speech quotes to be enclosed in double quotes.  Odd words and short phrases within sentences use single quotes.  

“Kids today” (says https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/10/single-quotes-or-double-quotes-its-really-quite-simple.html :-).  That seems to be a recent invention (maybe Fowler mentions something similar in 1908 (*)).

> Quotes within quotes alternate between double and single quotes.  

That is pretty much universal.

> Generally ending punctuation goes inside the quote marks in literary works.  

That is very much US only.

> Technical authoring tends to be rather freer!

Or more correct, actually…
https://www.dailywritingtips.com/punctuation-errors-american-and-british-quotation-marks/

Of course, the best quote marks are the German ones: »Mehr Licht!«
I tend to use them in technical writing when the subject of the writing assigns specific meanings to single and double quote marks (as in the C language, for instance).
For the historical accident that ASCII is, I can’t do that in RFCs yet...

Grüße, Carsten

(*) https://www.bartleby.com/116/406.html
Scroll down to "There are single and double quotation marks”.
The text is funny as it recommends double quotes in some places and then uses single quotes in the examples for that…