Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Thu, 20 December 2018 19:58 UTC
Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
X-Original-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C7A13116F; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:58:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SNa4ya4K-Rrv; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:58:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15ECB131163; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:58:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43LMyC5l1Zz1KHwM; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:58:27 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1545335907; bh=wr688jp0V0ZwJAZRcFyVZx92ZxG9lZMXA8a6D+dJuE4=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=d8Q7kH+ivuEmkd4Gfa+7rlD14qNqGa/cfgpqFvFQiU1VFE9lT7lWo3zW7m8HXuDuY LZ7JcYtGNfHHrmpHnGNRXt3oqDT/x52DT7goWXbI6eFqwUCOW8X2xzHFTE7u/tHf7u 9jcz1N5Mcm7Y6NUwvtbugGM7ZRIV9UWqO0vFumQw=
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net
Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43LMyB5LxJz1KHw9; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:58:26 -0800 (PST)
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>, "lisp@ietf.org" <lisp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org>
References: <154518630870.5131.10104452678736081639@ietfa.amsl.com> <da4ecf32-a1dd-1854-642e-77df66e61fdb@joelhalpern.com> <e439c990-7484-870f-f2fc-ac2300ae26d7@gmail.com> <f7ab6c01-b8bc-02ee-c491-da365d2e79ea@joelhalpern.com> <407BD77D-F364-4989-A6D2-C75DF9914402@gmail.com> <9cc58af9-2bcf-89d7-a2ae-3fc80e723d78@joelhalpern.com> <D12A1D05-F75D-46FF-A5AA-991817AA42BC@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E05D7D4@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <BAA2051B-A9E8-4D08-BD8C-EB7BD3FDB2AE@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E05E137@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B015DEB0-CFE2-4320-A33D-5478BDA16623@gmail.com> <dc81cad8-0bf5-9060-78a2-1537841ccf7d@gmail.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Message-ID: <583bf0d5-3de8-adba-7445-54ec4779a345@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 14:58:25 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <dc81cad8-0bf5-9060-78a2-1537841ccf7d@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/se80gJZqulfvQy8kWX8esSXoM1g>
Subject: Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01
X-BeenThere: gen-art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "GEN-ART: General Area Review Team" <gen-art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gen-art/>
List-Post: <mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:58:31 -0000
Dino, Med, please confirm if I am reading the thread properly: I believe that the proposal is to make the small change below to 6833bis and to drop the "updates" reference from 8113bis to 6833bis. I believe Dino's question was whether Brian agreed that the combination suggested would address his concern. Yours, Joel On 12/20/18 2:55 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > I may be missing something but I don't see how 8113bis can > logically cite 8113, which it replaces. > > Frankly I think you've collectively created a plate of citation > spaghetti by not moving the IANA considerations for the type field > registry into 6830bis, which is where they naturally belong. If you > don't want to do that, I think you have to leave them in 8113bis and > simply lose the citation of 6833bis, which serves no purpose that > I can see. > > Regards > Brian > > On 2018-12-21 06:32, Dino Farinacci wrote: >> I’ll make that change if Brian thinks it fixes the issues he raised. >> >> Dino >> >>> On Dec 19, 2018, at 11:35 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dino, >>> >>> OLD: >>> >>> Values in the "Not Assigned" range can be assigned according to >>> procedures in [RFC8126]. >>> >>> NEW: >>> >>> Values in the "Not Assigned" range can be assigned via Standards >>> Action [RFC8113]. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com] >>>> Envoyé : mercredi 19 décembre 2018 19:00 >>>> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN >>>> Cc : Joel M. Halpern; Brian E Carpenter; gen-art@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; >>>> draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org >>>> Objet : Re: [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01 >>>> >>>> What does fixing in (1) mean? >>>> >>>> Dino >>>> >>>>> On Dec 19, 2018, at 3:51 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> >>>> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Brian, whether to maintain the document standalone was discussed by the WG. >>>> You may refer, for example, to the message from Deborah which clarifies this >>>> point: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/lisp/current/msg07886.html. One >>>> of the outcomes of that discussion is to add an "updates" header to 8113bis. >>>>> >>>>> FWIW, one of the issues that led to that conclusion was whether to cite >>>> rfc8113bis as normative in 6833bis (the approach I initially supported) and >>>> agreed by Dino (https://www.ietf.org/mail- >>>> archive/web/lisp/current/msg07882.html). Deborah convinced me that citing >>>> 8113bis will lead to circular dependency. Which is a fair argument. >>>>> >>>>> The "updates" tag was justified as follows: >>>>> >>>>> (1) >>>>> >>>>> RFC6833bis includes the following: >>>>> >>>>> Values in the "Not Assigned" range can be assigned according to >>>>> procedures in [RFC8126]. >>>>> >>>>> That text is updated by RFC8113bis to be aligned with 8113: >>>>> >>>>> Values can be assigned via Standards Action >>>>> >>>>> (2) >>>>> >>>>> RFC8113bis extends the type field to grab more bits/values when the >>>> available types are exhausted. This is captured in 8113bis: >>>>> >>>>> The values in the range 0-1023 are assigned via Standards Action. >>>>> This range is provisioned to anticipate, in particular, the >>>>> exhaustion of the LISP Packet types. >>>>> >>>>> Dino: If (1) is fixed directly in RFC6833bis, then I'm fine to remove the >>>> "updates" header because (2) can be also seen as an extension. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Med >>>>> >>>>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>>>> De : Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com] >>>>>> Envoyé : mercredi 19 décembre 2018 06:37 >>>>>> À : Joel M. Halpern >>>>>> Cc : Brian E Carpenter; gen-art@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; draft-ietf-lisp- >>>>>> rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org >>>>>> Objet : Re: [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis- >>>> 01 >>>>>> >>>>>> Mohmad to comment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dino >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2018, at 8:49 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is the other fix he offered. Just remove the updates tag. >>>>>>> I will leav eit to you and the the authors to determine which is correct. >>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>> Joel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/18/18 11:43 PM, Dino Farinacci wrote: >>>>>>>> 8113bis should say that is it *extending* the type field so we can have >>>>>> more types. The word “update” I always had a problem with because it can >>>> be >>>>>> interpreted as “replacing". Replacing something to fix a problem. >>>>>>>> 8113 is simply asking for one of the type value codepoint, so there can >>>> be >>>>>> another format to have more types. >>>>>>>> Dino >>>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2018, at 9:24 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Authors: that sounds like a reasonable addition to me? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>>>> Joel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18 10:48 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 2018-12-19 15:46, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> This is part of the package to move the coherent set of base LISP >>>> specs >>>>>>>>>>> to PS. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The reason we did this rather than folding it into 6830bis / 6833bis >>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> that we had originally simply cited 8113, and then realized that >>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>> to move to PS along with everything else. It seemed (and is) simpler >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> do it separately rather than to further modify 6830bis / 6933bis. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As for why it updates 6833bis, that is because one of the cahnges in >>>>>>>>>>> moving the set to PS was to improve the split as to which information >>>>>>>>>>> belonged in which document. >>>>>>>>>> OK, but I still don't find it logical The text doesn't explain which >>>>>> part of >>>>>>>>>> 6833bis is impacted, and normally these days we require such an >>>>>> explanation. >>>>>>>>>> And if there is an impact, you're missing the opportunity of fixing >>>> the >>>>>> error >>>>>>>>>> or gap in 6833bis, so the reader of 6833bis will be none the wiser >>>>>> unless >>>>>>>>>> you insert a reference to 8113bis. >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, if there is no error or gap, you don't need >>>>>> "Updates:" >>>>>>>>>> at all. (Unfortunately, we don't have an "Extends:" header.) >>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>>>>>> Joel >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18 9:25 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter >>>>>>>>>>>> Review result: Ready with Issues >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >>>>>>>>>>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >>>>>>>>>>>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just >>>>>>>>>>>> like any other last call comments. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Document: draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01.txt >>>>>>>>>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter >>>>>>>>>>>> Review Date: 2018-12-19 >>>>>>>>>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2018-12-27 >>>>>>>>>>>> IESG Telechat date: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Summary: Ready with issues >>>>>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Comments: >>>>>>>>>>>> --------- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I note that this is being raised from Experimental to the standards >>>>>> track. >>>>>>>>>>>> Presumably that depends on the base LISP spec becoming PS. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Minor issues: >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "This document updates I-D.ietf-lisp-rfc6833bis." The text doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>> explain which text is updated. This is in contrast to RFC8113, which >>>>>>>>>>>> explains clearly how it updates RFC6830 (*not* RFC6833). Why doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>> this draft claim to update rfc6830bis? I'm going to assume that >>>>>>>>>>>> is an error. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, why wasn't the definition of the LISP Packet Types registry >>>>>>>>>>>> moved into the base spec (rfc6830bis)? That is where it belongs. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Since rfc6830bis (and rfc6833bis) are still under IESG review, >>>>>> anything >>>>>>>>>>>> in them that needs updating should be updated! The fact is that >>>>>> rfc8113bis >>>>>>>>>>>> extends rfc6830bis, which is not the same thing as "updates". >>>>>>>>>>>> If the WG thinks that implementers of 6830bis need to read 8113bis, >>>>>>>>>>>> there should be a normative reference in 6830bis to 8113bis. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> lisp mailing list >>>>>>>>> lisp@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp >>>>> >>> >> >> >
- [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-l… Brian Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ie… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ie… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ie… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Luigi Iannone
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter