Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Sat, 03 April 2021 20:39 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187003A1435 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 13:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jhxahCWd3GX7 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 13:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EC613A1432 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 13:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id j26so3302824iog.13 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 13:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XKffyeVjULOb5LRO8tjxJ8ysg9yJde6RhBrK3XZ/XwI=; b=ZmRTdz89vPHnz2PieaRILEOecItalaFmu6SBH1VzIFCFanVfaPR3+3yB7GEE4XkPRb p8GC7D0yU8Xvs3bv3pY/cZlgR26oFkvXXUgDZ9NOX8HO6pGiUZN+20TMYyqtKxUgVLGn lsSOfbX1h3D2pDUMnhPpfpvaLSd4X3F2a6Gn5pG7c58cHabt0tlLxv195jFu0WIy5SzD uvLi/HQGc7QD/1fRNveFhJRwvVd31mz8TXWdGdM9LGnM8vrBU8tFqkWez5nPZ2HFCciC tfQRaNMZ/U1tX8B3rP0J7J6ZRuQ69M7J+9kOVyBgOBTSmlLIs8yvTa7gojeafU1GRlHW FYuQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XKffyeVjULOb5LRO8tjxJ8ysg9yJde6RhBrK3XZ/XwI=; b=Alfu5X2aKUUeoCPKyyPAG6782RBQL2V2Xs/sgpygvYhGUcz7r1Ql+qSaksfwpbZVHE Fw6UYvlc/DQulyByi+1TKZKjT+dMi5z4KRC7QhWbptjSSvpqLzXT4kJX3TIB+KO/3YpW wUKGOz/QNCHlt+Vrl5ABNKgIpaB/ebcpT1+pIDIR1d906FVN2PjGZF5QN+sUJt9DT38A o7bL7ptYrwVyjqjb1zqBj2cB9puHTMjj/FimCPrXXW8AKOxl/Xd2pwzdA37HQoDztBR4 b9Q9UsDXqg/W9bWf73H2+VsvuX55+Yh2EttRgkVlyWSKBILDeILB+cTRILEF3kQMIRer kwTg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530OjLnPlVv6CQ4nLpbQriaRj62WRPmVlpIDNYbYA/zaMKpvyBng 32lSgks42dkqRC0p4wwRjBVCdbmw5u8EiARLxqGWlw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJznFDaRVqNxCFLGzDes0l13Bp8fE7DUpH1ow6cZU/ovh21m63LGagCCC4XPImxuqwa2Ddxa6KPxrjGddW5y5wo=
X-Received: by 2002:a02:c8ce:: with SMTP id q14mr1767617jao.135.1617482354705; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 13:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAChr6Sxa6uY+nOzWW=MSXP_ekLaBSCTfjC2YcURi+kX0h2X+Rg@mail.gmail.com> <1CBE5840-3CAE-4EAA-9CF2-E0FFDAAAA6FD@akamai.com> <b5166f9c-f79d-1e45-1e6f-a12e90ce3aa5@cs.tcd.ie> <LO2P265MB0399F849A9A6142A301B83F4C2799@LO2P265MB0399.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <CABcZeBOatEqZ73MoZ6zJ69-iFVsy7DDw98gx3Nyk7xd3NhEnYw@mail.gmail.com> <LO2P265MB039984221DC19ACEEA99A104C2799@LO2P265MB0399.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
In-Reply-To: <LO2P265MB039984221DC19ACEEA99A104C2799@LO2P265MB0399.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2021 13:38:38 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBMjzR21PhxRS8VYUW0DXpN-qsNuuRJqP=tOMTWdLPYj-A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrew Campling <andrew.campling@419.consulting>
Cc: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>, "gendispatch@ietf.org" <gendispatch@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002edb7705bf177577"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/-v6UMCLjjpBOEbqUTX2Y0DhDFhU>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2021 20:39:21 -0000

On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 1:15 PM Andrew Campling
<andrew.campling@419.consulting> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 21:05 Eric Rescorla ekr@rtfm.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I find this to be a somewhat surprising suggestion. Subscribing to
> ietf@ietf.org seems like about the last thing I would advise a new
> participant to do -- at least if I wanted them to continue to participate
>
>
>
> So what would you suggest to improve the way that ietf@ietf.org works?
>

Perhaps our emails crossed in transit. I think the primary thing would be
for more active moderation, with the moderators given fairly wide
discretion to maintain order.


How else could community interactions be improved?  What else can be done
> to make it easier for people to broaden their participation?
>
>
Well, I don't really think of the ietf@ietf.org list as much of an example
of broad participation. Rather, it's a generalized discussion list that in
my experience mostly is a source of pointless arguing.

In my experience most of the broad participation happens in smaller venues,
for instance in IAB workshops or when people from one area do work in/with
another area.

-Ekr