[Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF)
Theresa Enghardt <ietf@tenghardt.net> Thu, 25 February 2021 04:00 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf@tenghardt.net>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D6F3A0F00; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:00:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=tenghardt.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KS2c30dXgZ6S; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:00:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.hemio.de (mail.hemio.de [136.243.12.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 713DC3A0F35; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:00:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: from user.client.invalid (localhost [136.243.12.180]) by mail.hemio.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A0120AA; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 05:00:02 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=tenghardt.net; s=20170414; t=1614225605; bh=CC40o7Pyllzxm1fcVQ2TO1Qm5aS/pNR43L2Zymzpsg8=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=DVca39dNe8HjDZ57oGz+yP1Y0A3E3DgEGqFFxKOrKWpEzfn83nwA+kY+Hsu9bGf6Y uJ5ApmB2KiGogMZNw4n5z/n/lde3tRtXD2Qld+UoX3u0qZRL75Jni4qG28uH6S8MnV 7zNBin8Mvj6zKaQISEx/UD5qu9kBN96MmeDg0k4/WZC1N9AIt2IP42QfgJvM/LgJaB LvWXx4095S4JytXrkmIbmIJhFvhNRrsTOrCwYDUekI4tT4RI5egqp80Pio/m5PkUlq gA2cKbG/I2iyioTbLwCD+CnVL4EqnU86WbUmKwh47LTdFGc2wVtJqJVbTEkVDCMDzq 7OryEM69kp0fw==
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
References: <37eecb9b-f0eb-e21c-b162-b1f0339e4981@si6networks.com>
Cc: "'ietf@ietf.org'" <ietf@ietf.org>, GENDISPATCH List <gendispatch@ietf.org>
From: Theresa Enghardt <ietf@tenghardt.net>
Message-ID: <41698b83-25ff-574e-390a-65a8c3dc591a@tenghardt.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 19:59:59 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <37eecb9b-f0eb-e21c-b162-b1f0339e4981@si6networks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/2r8cuTr-WQ6A95PHBNlF6PeX2ok>
Subject: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF)
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 04:00:10 -0000
Hi Fernando, Keith, On 2/22/21 4:07 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: > We have submitted a new I-D, entitled "Diversity and Inclusiveness in > the IETF". > > The I-D is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-gont-diversity-analysis-00.txt Thank you for this document. One perspective that I missed in this document is academia, as I have participated in the IETF as an academic for a few years. The document mentions "Universities" as an example of organizations for which IETF participation might not [be] attractive or feasible. I'm not sure I agree. Some benefits of participating in the IETF for researchers, PhD students, etc, potentially to be added to Section 4 as a separate group, include: - Getting feedback on your work, e.g., assumptions you may be making, things you may have overlooked, direction for future work - Input for your own teaching (learning about the IETF and its processes has very much enhanced discussions with my students) - Making industry connections, e.g., for joint projects - Professional networking, career advancement When it comes to attending IETF meetings, I think it's worth mentioning that they are sometimes co-located with ANRW, an academic workshop, and that a lot of IRTF meetings are taking place during the same week. Also, there are efforts in the IRTF, such as the IRTF research prize, which may help PhD students get an ROI for their IETF-related work, feedback, and the opportunity to attend an IETF meeting. Of course, a lot of the same structural problems that the draft mentions still apply to academics, and not all universities are "equal" (e.g., big/famous ones probably often have an easier time sending people than smaller ones). One specific example would be Economic Constraints, Section 9: Universities usually have a travel budget and they may also have rules on how much a hotel is allowed to cost per night. IETF hotels are usually, if not always, outside of that budget, and overflow hotels are, too. I've usually managed to find something in adequate distance, but it did feel a bit strange to be basically excluded from the "official" hotels. That's just my initial thoughts, and feel free to include them in the draft. Best, Theresa
- [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Dominique Lazanski
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Dominique Lazanski
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Kyle Rose
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Juliana Guerra
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Jay Daley
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Mary Barnes
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Bill Woodcock
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Gendispatch] coders in IETF (was: Diversity … Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] coders in IETF (was: Diversity … Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Mary Barnes
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Christian Huitema
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] coders in IETF Keith Moore
- [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inclusi… Theresa Enghardt
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Jen Linkova
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Theresa Enghardt
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Theresa Enghardt
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Andrew Campling
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Andrew Campling
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Andrew Campling
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Colin Perkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Bill Woodcock
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Martin Thomson
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… John Wroclawski
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Christian Huitema
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in … Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Academia (Re: Diversity and Inc… Wes Hardaker