Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.txt
Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Fri, 29 September 2023 07:12 UTC
Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A163C17CE8A for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 00:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.104
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b="dYWcyvjJ"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="gwdclcVm"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TDkCSFt1uUwP for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 00:12:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFC3BC1763AE for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 00:12:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31ECE5C0050; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 03:12:17 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap41 ([10.202.2.91]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 03:12:17 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1695971537; x= 1696057937; bh=K1Mm2+x4zpEcSAyaQpPNn5kgKUQhO2ahGVQ6eP0IErg=; b=d YWcyvjJ+o4+IftYY0TnhetOg/s64xILPeE97v5BM3rn0bBvmhgQ0K3D/yMIlNKK2 4zBb04jF6YHXi3NdA7wZZWPGqj5uKIMuL9aJrpjAZoRCUKNKVZYIdplX8NF1Z1eT t/m89aaWtEXJT73X9y3EHq0gVNLP9UGerDmaKcHHobyokq/blO+nuysHG3gKVLgI sBRLQ/6C28bJOLMSS+YIJyzSbGx9pMwOO4EH9SDNo3dfudbbG1jWGujyzMTf0Oyl qamFU8tR7Ai4ODJRftzzqK9wDNhDtZHgE9Ee0wnCmOYq9koB+cDQT3OdKQULcY5v jTxaKMaIDWefRA7+Imhig==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1695971537; x=1696057937; bh=K1Mm2+x4zpEcS AyaQpPNn5kgKUQhO2ahGVQ6eP0IErg=; b=gwdclcVmqeQ4sa+EcCdL/RIzxNpa9 GVo2h9fLSgxJ7XH6L3UqxG2k5M4kX5MX+Sc1aPuJY93yDG2Vnmxdi5/W2ylh45zB 7f2RKabgPzpZ2LgXGT3kKv9l3RVoiKspsYtdfG+iWZhLy7WecA1AdwZ/O0/x6NZw 2Rj5fPeW+5TCEF8CXne70EP6SxAmpxS/d7/zFn0eN2jb6G13vd6C480UxSunAl3S mogTj3YHJ5C2zuglNxqUSOLrm/wMpBaaJZvlCfEKKxqvp59LGL/TfJE1Fd1NhwCY F5cvSeW+kzpcmQxGj1Pdfzg0+Wo0Cent18xb5Rz//Q2siJV37KOBXifug==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:0HgWZes95GbMDeMmy_bbK9o_tQv8_C9zyNZwh9fNVMhcHkDl7BJpsQ> <xme:0HgWZTebaQW3Txc9A3h-JPiQy-Lia-aKBoStD9Zn4Pt40Hw303EbNcDLbLjSLrK3p btJaX2DwX56S7z5EGY>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrtddugdduudelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgr rhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenuc ggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduleeufedthfegieeiieekkeejvdejgfevudffgeefvdffleev feekudeiieekleenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfh hrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvght
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:0XgWZZzYfu8EdAlNTSj6qwKPeI4LGdN9TognLPQ_7djJ6RYQslXBLQ> <xmx:0XgWZZPOUSwUT6fax-2L6jRzNeZChpbonzh0mXWoCMqd1Yi-quYMUw> <xmx:0XgWZe_KNISZ1tLrAaUrhh-wg1Su3NMjts4PgLwz3AZ3X7LNPnI32Q> <xmx:0XgWZTHtuwLfghQFKKT7RK2ZfmDP7RIWQsE6EWN7JEG3zlWxGr4gVw>
Feedback-ID: ic129442d:Fastmail
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id D4FCB234007E; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 03:12:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-958-g1b1b911df8-fm-20230927.002-g1b1b911d
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <99a22584-3b9e-4b3b-9bb1-e5ef0c0e8c32@betaapp.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <6bdd91d7-f061-4fc1-b671-292b19717198@lear.ch>
References: <169587871859.41935.17692726615817157868@ietfa.amsl.com> <3c7a5635-6a18-445e-9483-22ebfe31e1d5@betaapp.fastmail.com> <a970d95a-fbdc-8271-bbbc-889de7c6ac87@joelhalpern.com> <CABcZeBNgdb4ZtEqVeG6D=H617UrHG9SgktmZaLG_TjKZFMVvZg@mail.gmail.com> <17e3ec59-7568-4636-09f2-f4be9cf0f0d5@joelhalpern.com> <CABcZeBNzG+Gs_GZO1pdFfEirkMGU3SQpyimy4FXy0byk3SxStg@mail.gmail.com> <17154a5c-1483-9509-4fe2-bf8aba82f2e8@joelhalpern.com> <5f6b1c1e-9054-61d0-a5ea-4a205c1eeecf@gmail.com> <0050d192-e799-4342-978c-208901a03fef@betaapp.fastmail.com> <6d322942-fba4-489d-b3bb-802ff06e87bf@lear.ch> <9FD5A234-40B5-46C8-8A6E-881C2C075FD0@mnot.net> <6bdd91d7-f061-4fc1-b671-292b19717198@lear.ch>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 17:11:56 +1000
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/3yut2xXkwYoy65DgplVlxOTTqM0>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.txt
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 07:12:22 -0000
On Fri, Sep 29, 2023, at 16:27, Eliot Lear wrote: > The CRA is going to require security standards to be set > through *European* standards organizations. Now of course those > organizations can incorporate IETF work by reference, as they do today. > But there is a likelihood that standards that have no copyright *will > be modified* in that framework. That's an interesting prediction, but I don't believe that copyright is the thing that prevents these abuses. It is the legitimacy of the IETF, it's processes, its IPR protections, the broad participation, the quality of its past work, and all of the things that make IETF RFCs valued. If certain groups want to trample all over that, for whatever reason (NIH is a pretty poor justification ...) and damage interoperability, I would expect them to hear about that from the IAB and IESG. That sort of thing has happened in the past and been effective. If your prediction is that this will be less effective in the future, that's a bad outcome, but copyright won't be the thing that saves us.
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… John Scudder
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] [Ext] Re: New Version Notificat… David Huberman
- Re: [Gendispatch] [Ext] Re: New Version Notificat… Brian E Carpenter