Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.txt

Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch> Fri, 29 September 2023 06:27 UTC

Return-Path: <lear@lear.ch>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D1E0C15C523 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 23:27:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=lear.ch
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJ0z2b0GhycS for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 23:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from upstairs.ofcourseimright.com (upstairs.ofcourseimright.com [IPv6:2a00:bd80:aa::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98DEBC15C501 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 23:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=lear.ch; s=upstairs; t=1695968841; bh=NIWDC1FQqZQTEKiFvNzrlkANlCvDtygOvWY5IGbJBmU=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=VUHxQC8PX1po+zgb68LbcsO0VjWQJgK++MKxwP0B3JkhSQtPpcqjPXeYvlVSelMyS 33rEZmdxW3Nq2osqN7DXaPolBmZGaM+F0CzPfNPs1KkcRPBkFi/u5bskaV1ny9bmDD O0EUYFy/oCkd7suDKIj4JaT3bqyuTpW47+S5UsDs=
Received: from [192.168.0.99] (77-58-144-232.dclient.hispeed.ch [77.58.144.232]) (authenticated bits=0) by upstairs.ofcourseimright.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-22ubuntu3) with ESMTPSA id 38T6RKjg3570750 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:27:21 +0200
Message-ID: <6bdd91d7-f061-4fc1-b671-292b19717198@lear.ch>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:27:20 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Content-Language: en-US
To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Cc: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, gendispatch@ietf.org
References: <169587871859.41935.17692726615817157868@ietfa.amsl.com> <3c7a5635-6a18-445e-9483-22ebfe31e1d5@betaapp.fastmail.com> <a970d95a-fbdc-8271-bbbc-889de7c6ac87@joelhalpern.com> <CABcZeBNgdb4ZtEqVeG6D=H617UrHG9SgktmZaLG_TjKZFMVvZg@mail.gmail.com> <17e3ec59-7568-4636-09f2-f4be9cf0f0d5@joelhalpern.com> <CABcZeBNzG+Gs_GZO1pdFfEirkMGU3SQpyimy4FXy0byk3SxStg@mail.gmail.com> <17154a5c-1483-9509-4fe2-bf8aba82f2e8@joelhalpern.com> <5f6b1c1e-9054-61d0-a5ea-4a205c1eeecf@gmail.com> <0050d192-e799-4342-978c-208901a03fef@betaapp.fastmail.com> <6d322942-fba4-489d-b3bb-802ff06e87bf@lear.ch> <9FD5A234-40B5-46C8-8A6E-881C2C075FD0@mnot.net>
From: Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>
Autocrypt: addr=lear@lear.ch; keydata= xsBNBFMe1UQBCADdYOS5APDpIpF2ohAxB+nxg1GpAYr8iKwGIb86Wp9NkK5+QwbW9H035clT lpVLciExtN8E3MCTPOIm7aITPlruixAVwlBY3g7U9eRppSw9O2H/7bie2GOnYxqmsw4v1yNZ 9NcMLlD8raY0UcQ5r698c8JD4xUTLqybZXaK2sPeJkxzT+IwupRSQ+vXEvFFGhERQ88zo5Ca Sa1Gw/Rv54oH0Dq2XYkO41rhxQ60BKZLZuQK1d9+1y3I+An3AJeD3AA31fJZD3H8YRKOBgqe ILPILbw1mM7gCtCjfvFCt6AFCwEsjITGx55ceoQ+t5B5XGYJEppMWsIFrwZsfbL+gP31ABEB AAHNGUVsaW90IExlYXIgPGxlYXJAbGVhci5jaD7CwI4EEwECADgCGwMCHgECF4AWIQSY0L2Q Rh2wkqeyYR2HtmtG2dJ6MwUCWxJwMwULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQAKCRCHtmtG2dJ6M8KI B/46pFrJX+4Ockl2fHR303ais9Lyx8jv6mXKKOr8WR0UYcJ0syQrhaaZNG1VV98tYQHHK9F5 y7hH4YCsrr3odZ6zoavnx5X1X/2xw8y732f/irVoOOkYLid9IGPxa2e2nYXCZpde5/yvv3we XVE4mG4dEAD5T8iKS4Hz/3fKGJQ15o79Jv92HgC7RpCt0WaiQ0b6acP3PuwjDJzJzLFZzb7j IiB3izxQESSWE1GNRmoAK/k0gW6kmx1/87tQENrK+3Nn4CJSFQWF6entLnY7UeVm95wbMQkJ evwddDWUO2huDbmZnmxgKXGzSSpuNq7n8ICAOlbt0HfdJAZQfy25bwvezsBNBFMe1UQBCAC0 WV7Ydbv95xYGPhthTdChBIpPtl7JPCV/c6/3iEmvjpfGuFNaK4Macj9le20EA5A1BH7PgLGo HOiPM65NysRpZ96RRVX3TNfLmhGMFr5hPOGNdq+xcGHVutmwPV9U7bKeUNRiPFx3YdEkExdd qV2E8FltT0x2FSKe2xszPPHB6gVtMckX5buI9p1K3fbVhXdvEkcYY/jB0JEJGyhS5aEbct5c HUvDAkT81/YFK5Jfg8RRwu1q1t1YuIJSOWAZQ9J9oUsg6D9RpClU+tIFBoe3iTp1AUfJcypu cGKgLYKtpu/aygcpQONHYkYW5003mPsrajFhReVF5veycMbHs4u5ABEBAAHCwF8EGAECAAkF AlMe1UQCGwwACgkQh7ZrRtnSejOSuQgA27p2rYB7Kh20dym6V8c62pWpBHHTgxr/32zevxHS iXl6xvUCg5T8WUwfUk8OvgDcBErK/blDAMXQzSg3sp450JhR8RnXHXF5Zz2T04X7HnlIVJGw f2CjnwyEAJCqMzaCmI+g3Imvg/8L4nyBFvhlFHDv+kIvMiujyycjPAu7xxKplBs1/IEwmDoA MjneFmawvfeQnwdMhSKK8PjKSuzGU5uUmxj3GBfRqvTM0qpmhMPFOmDhJSmH55HLAky2Mlmq JYXJPt/9EfSEhFiua1M6gLiuNEuPkp+8jcnHQqKr0IeHt8UqcwLt2mGfIyl0FVdF9hvWPjNR zGbgqoT1Di03RQ==
In-Reply-To: <9FD5A234-40B5-46C8-8A6E-881C2C075FD0@mnot.net>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------pT03Hw2j3vRzy3Ex1FsdWoKI"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/4egeVX1kkQ-v6ZFTDiEie6kGMt8>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.txt
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 06:27:35 -0000

On 29.09.23 08:22, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> I'm not sure what point you're making here. Are you saying that the reputation and name of the IETF is being devalued thanks to changes in the regulatory environment?

I wouldn't have put it that way, but in effect that's where things are 
going.  The CRA is going to require security standards to be set through 
*European* standards organizations.  Now of course those organizations 
can incorporate IETF work by reference, as they do today.  But there is 
a likelihood that standards that have no copyright *will be modified* in 
that framework.  And if ETSI is going to allow for that, the ITU will 
not be left behind, because they've tried it before.  And there are 
people who participate in the latter and in ISO would would just assume 
the IETF didn't exist.

Eliot