[Gendispatch] could the Updates question be within the charter for procon?

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sun, 08 June 2025 19:36 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: gendispatch@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E155C3269A01; Sun, 8 Jun 2025 12:36:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.798
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2hjqWempuTNA; Sun, 8 Jun 2025 12:36:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7042D32699F8; Sun, 8 Jun 2025 12:36:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58481800F; Sun, 8 Jun 2025 15:36:35 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with LMTP id Z3AtbLbXX4aw; Sun, 8 Jun 2025 15:36:34 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1749411394; bh=ClMqIFmP62S0eW63Xsn9styDQ7Ij9l50zfcAWScHoTg=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=dqRm5CjQmC6a1AKmyJhLbhJKsYdoMvXCp+iGB40VBE3pPezha1icGCvYsit3fWlZf b1RoUDsyG2ejsOYp24g72/XI/SwI2dJ6wsX9x5h/UL4IG42mmUEUJdVgZF+5ZadLKr 7jNoOnPxpKo1lEWv5imUefzcUyB12N6y7EWAaVF4S84yZT/LyOUlYNrIifjYxHchrQ acLp0SxZ96dP5inlbu0gpiwDFHncaFa7QHCh+icRa9IEBWNH3Az4qQdPCUNMpFhDTW W+Qw4xjgRYsIVtOR6Aah12DkzLJD32GZPG44zPeipw/2PM/S/bmvgqX3X8qmAnq3mG dxw0oRJUzN71g==
Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:4c22:dbff:fefd:1b86]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C8A1800C; Sun, 8 Jun 2025 15:36:34 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DBA618E; Sun, 8 Jun 2025 15:36:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: procon@ietf.org, gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Attribution: mcr
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.8+dev; GNU Emacs 28.2
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0;<'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2025 15:36:25 -0400
Message-ID: <2027567.1749411385@obiwan.sandelman.ca>
Message-ID-Hash: TLVHBJGV2B34OCKK7SHOAPUCUCLH4QQ6
X-Message-ID-Hash: TLVHBJGV2B34OCKK7SHOAPUCUCLH4QQ6
X-MailFrom: mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Gendispatch] could the Updates question be within the charter for procon?
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/4s7sMO3CHKwjnrgrErw09nHh20E>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:gendispatch-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gendispatch-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gendispatch-leave@ietf.org>

I recently saw the IESG comment that  draft-kuehlewind-update-tag has no
status, "As other ADs have balloted, [I-D.kuehlewind-update-tag] has no standing."

see: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6lo-prefix-registration/ballot/

I am rather disturbed by this.  As a document author, I feel that if I want
to use Amend/Extended/See Also in my document, it's my perogative.  That the
IESG has not seen to provide us with anything better than "Updates" five
years after the problem was clearly identified, and frankly more than a
decade after the problem has appeared is a problem.  That it seems that the
IESG wants Pascal to remove useful information from his document is really
dumb.

My understanding is that some of the reason for not advancing the document
was that the IESG wasn't sure if there was any real consensus around this.
Well: what better way to find out if it's useful than to actually find out if
authors want to use it.  I do.

The procon charter is quite limited, and would need to be rechartered to deal
with this topic.  In 2021, the IETF111 dispatched this to a mailing list, but
as far as I can see, this never occured.  I could be wrong.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide