[Gendispatch] Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-gendispatch-org-proc-docs-00.txt

[Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]>]

It would not address mine. I think we should keep a bright line here and
that means not have the staff involved in writing the documents at all.

-Ekr

On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 6:18 AM Eliot Lear <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Between online and offline commentary, what I'm getting is that people are
> very concerned about the staff stepping into a policy making roll.  I
> suggest the middle ground here is as follows:
>
> It would be good if we could ask for help on an editorial level to collect
> and collate all the existing processes in a NON-NORMATIVE fashion.  That
> is- help us understand what we have in a way that seems coherent.  Then we
> the IETF community can do what we want with that.
>
> Ted, would that address your concerns?
>
> Eliot
> On 24.09.2024 14:49, Jay Daley wrote:
>
> Hi Ted
>
>
> On 24 Sep 2024, at 13:36, Ted Hardie <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Hi. Eliot,
>
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 2:31 AM Eliot Lear <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> wrote:
> <snip>
>     • We dispatch this to the LLC (assuming they are okay with that) to perform the consolidation, with the understanding that the goal is not to create or change any policy but to simply document it all in a way agreed.
>
>
> If you review https://www.ietf.org/administration/overview/ you will see that work like this is explicitly out of scope:
>
> The IETF LLC has no role in the oversight or steering of the standards process as currently conducted by the IESG and IAB, the appeal chain, the confirming bodies for existing IETF and IAB appointments, the IRTF, or ISOC's memberships in other organizations.
>
> At least as I recall it, that separation was a core part of developing the community consensus around the IETF LLC approach.  Dispatching documents that describe the standards process to them seems to me to be a non-starter as a result.  If you want to hire an editor, I think you have to do it outside the LLC itself.
>
> LLC staff regularly act as professional authors, writing primarily website content relating to all aspects of the IETF, including the standards process.  Most of the time this is simply taking existing content and rewriting it in a more consistent, accessible and integrated (i.e. reducing several overlapping pages to one) form.  Whenever we do so, the content is checked by IESG members and other community members before publication.
>
> For examples, see my regular updates to the now closed tao-discuss list about reuse of Tao content https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tao-discuss/ and the authors site authors.ietf.org.
>
> Provided that is what would be asked of us, then I see no inconsistency with RFC 8711, which is where the role of the LLC is set.
>
> cheers
> Jay
>
>
> regards,
>
> Ted
>
>
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