Re: [Gendispatch] revised

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Wed, 31 March 2021 20:38 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51E23A3689; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c6NET4Ygt_Lj; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25A1C3A3684; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FF3642CF2; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:38:38 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a62.g.dreamhost.com (100-101-162-28.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.101.162.28]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 28B7E642A5C; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:38:38 +0000 (UTC)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a62.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.101.162.28 (trex/6.1.1); Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:38:38 +0000
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost
X-Ski-Occur: 0bca3f3108d83de2_1617223118773_2192628276
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1617223118773:2507579639
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1617223118773
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a62.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a62.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88AA8C42B; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:38:37 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=cryptonector.com; bh=ZMErFPCkWrZhYy RqgJHGFOMG6xg=; b=mtCQCXktmf2l2OtMe81zqiIIhi3RWIbbvGVC31TRYK/dlX HTvhix1IstJsbLlvRmOWNcZbJX6c0iW4578SSrFFWhrc/nyJF3ZW5TLBjiN2AjLV MS/iUXGwaKwrlPciJVEsai4htcohtgw1JcFDLgkcYJhc1JeqbDZdfugtyM2m4=
Received: from localhost (unknown [24.28.108.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a62.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 429D18C424; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:38:36 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 15:38:34 -0500
X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a62
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>
Cc: "'gendispatch@ietf.org'" <gendispatch@ietf.org>, terminology@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20210331203833.GC30153@localhost>
Reply-To: terminology@ietf.org
References: <6F387137-46E4-4CDE-9BCA-CAED684D3AA1@sn3rd.com> <32149fda-1d17-c167-1699-43ed3c02f516@si6networks.com> <f0f31d9c-cdd5-ccf7-3524-f243afe7bd8e@lounge.org> <E929EAEC-99AD-486F-A110-FE32CA83964B@akamai.com> <75b90e7c-837d-e271-987b-0f22361d44a3@cdt.org> <876b2018-e720-97d8-0bdf-8941aa42a7b0@lounge.org> <1ca9e781-2f5c-355f-ac75-37dc00b1d650@cdt.org> <3aae286a-6a27-8016-9c81-4ef3dfa6cf9e@lounge.org> <20210331181123.GA30153@localhost> <DM6PR02MB69247B246E84EFD2936C9BCFC37C9@DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR02MB69247B246E84EFD2936C9BCFC37C9@DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/9_f4YFkigFn6xGTmY7vnuLFDy28>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] revised
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:38:50 -0000

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 07:23:57PM +0000, STARK, BARBARA H wrote:
> > The IETF's volunteer nature, with no gatekeepers, means that the IETF
> > can neither be the cause of nor the solution to lack of diversity of any
> > kind.  Though perhaps in order for the IETF to join our brave new
> > age-of-the-hyper-ostrakon, we must have gatekeepers (who hopefully will
> > only ever discriminate on the basis of approved criteria).
> 
> The IETF does have gatekeepers. It has Chairs and others who should
> inform people when they do not abide by the IETF Guidelines for
> Conduct [RFC 7154] and also provides for people to be removed from
> lists who cannot behave according to these guidelines.

I don't call that gatekeeping.  We have bouncers, like bars and clubs,
to kick out people who misbehave, but we don't keep people out because
they're not attractive enough.  We can argue over what's a good term for
that function if you really think "gatekeeping" means something else,
but surely we all agree that the IETF does not vet new participants.

Nico
--