Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-ecahc-moderation-00.txt

[Rob Sayre <[e-mail]>]

Hi,

I am pretty well-qualified to comment on this one, having worked at Mozilla
from 2005-2011, and been an open source contributor before then.

I don't agree with any characterization you have here, but that's an aside.
What would not be tolerated in Mozilla culture would be something like
joining the #nss (SSL/TLS) IRC channel and questioning encryption in
general.

So, I think the problem with this proposal is that it focuses solely on
enforcement once things have gone south. That is necessary, but it does not
address unproductive messages that lead to these situations.

thanks,
Rob


On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:54 PM Lloyd W <[e-mail]> wrote:

> It's always worth remembering that, as Mozilla grew out of the ashes of
> Netscape, that the organisation behind the Firefox browser (which was
> Phoenix, which was Netscape Communicator, which was Navigator) has changed
> significantly in its journey from producing the world's most successful web
> browser in 1995 to supporting the world's fourth most successful web
> browser today.
>
> And Mozilla was named and founded by Jamie Zawinski, who famously has a
> very robust and direct approach to personal communication, and who does not
> suffer fools gladly. Less W3C, more really-not-the-best-of-IETF in attitude.
>
> really bad attitude <https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html>
> jwz.org <https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html>
> [image: favicon.ico] <https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html>
> <https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html>
>
> My point is that Mozilla is now culturally very different from its
> Netscape company roots and founding outlook[*], and the organisation behind
> it has changed drastically too. Correlation, or causation? Can you shift
> the communications culture rapidly, rather than slowly over the course of
> decades, without having to also dramatically change and completely
> restructure the underlying organisation that enables and supports that
> communication?
>
> As the Critical Drinker says: Don't Know.
>
> [*] well, very different only in the fairly narrow range of US West Coast
> libertarian social outlooks and communication modes. If you're outside of
> that particular bubble, it does look all very much like
> Americans-struggling-with-their-ideas-of-social-networking-again.
>
> Lloyd Wood
> [e-mail]
>
> On 20 Jul 2023, at 11:36, Alissa Cooper <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> When I was IETF Chair, some Mozilla people helped me, the
> sergeants-at-arms, the ombudsteam, and some other IETF leadership people
> connect with the person who was Mozilla’s community manager at the time. He
> attended two IETF meetings, reviewed some of the RFCs, policies, and
> procedures that we had related to conduct, and provided advice about
> improving the quality of interactions in the community. This was a
> precursor to the efforts that followed related to moderation of
> [e-mail].
>
>