Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-00.txt

"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Sun, 05 September 2021 17:51 UTC

Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6633A0C42 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2748eafGNO43 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:51:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 821723A0C40 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:51:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4H2fH76FVwz1nwBJ; Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1630864307; bh=I0reczU+F2LDPZiLDbeJJv0KkfR5SHB9S/Eyswk1LbA=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Cmq2JMQFq0U4O3QFn1PrGdHeABZceMnDJ7xxoOyCWU/GaHy9WZaI1j3FxNRwTqN71 HGRuPbdDWMnmCMwIZn3OZfZGHij2lTsRGVh15AOrGf//QfV5rO8fGJokSiu17s5XUq N4Di2C+GGK5kstByTVsfy+BrSOvSSmccHQhek/SI=
X-Quarantine-ID: <vxXLm3qScgiJ>
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net
Received: from [192.168.23.64] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4H2fH72jsVz1nw7G; Sun, 5 Sep 2021 10:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Cc: GENDISPATCH List <gendispatch@ietf.org>
References: <163037412640.15437.266878243771416247@ietfa.amsl.com> <5da63a02-bbc2-98a9-5a19-745179744192@joelhalpern.com> <CAChr6SwjazBjSj6XzmCDO0pnsibxohU=40TkJ0GnAJ+_t5zSHw@mail.gmail.com> <05211e39-419d-2455-ffa3-1a55fab22a48@joelhalpern.com> <CANMZLAaiPjeO7wMrfjjd5-XJpzYm3iUTExdUqD+JBm9mCYgvNg@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SztfuauB1vTLpu6L-AeaShRfZ-Ybs_d+2p8oaMBBvKjyQ@mail.gmail.com> <f706ce7f-2967-50ad-eaf0-e9b168b5a6e8@gmail.com> <CAChr6Sw+KVW_Jq5LZFN_KJ9ygxb9=sFoRNs2yAPeiPLV3A1Y=w@mail.gmail.com> <9b819b2d-4de2-800d-190c-4c7cbfc2465e@gmail.com> <CAChr6Sy_F6yg2UGC_LSBvpMQr25bwH=CUq9jh78_h13iyyh9yg@mail.gmail.com> <7da21d8a-bdc1-6974-c485-9ed1b2e4910a@joelhalpern.com> <CAChr6SxzYCC=eYySGuAeHY6=pXcAR+sBvAR7iuqTqcDwitb4LA@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6Sy3=xWWejpPrmMRSgE18CNVs29NtxzJfv_nm55oXq215g@mail.gmail.com> <a508dcfb-26f6-89f2-4ef3-a7befe9db95a@joelhalpern.com> <CAChr6SzFb0dPiMjysknHfBMk1__HRPb463bLCveJQq=fmpOKZQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Message-ID: <53004065-59f5-d95c-a95a-3c0d1af0f0e1@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2021 13:51:46 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAChr6SzFb0dPiMjysknHfBMk1__HRPb463bLCveJQq=fmpOKZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/AZERZTxcAiiHDBPH6PF6OPX0o_M>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-00.txt
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2021 17:51:57 -0000

The point of the exercise from my perspective is to give people 
community agreed advice on how to avoid antitrust issues.  This helps 
protect everyone.

Watering it down to "things to think about" seems distinctluy 
counter-productive.

Yours,
Joel

On 9/5/2021 1:28 AM, Rob Sayre wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 10:16 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com 
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> 
>     As far as I can tell Rob, you are asking to remove words that have
>     value.  I do not understand any of your requests for removal.
> 
> 
> Joel,
> 
> It's not really a great argument to claim that text "has value" without 
> describing what that value is.
> 
> I removed one paragraph in the text I sent, because it was no longer 
> needed given the descriptive, rather than prescriptive, language I used. 
> The other things were rephrased.
> 
> IETF participants come to the organization with many different 
> antitrust/competitive concerns. As such, the prescriptive text in the 
> current draft could be viewed as anti-competitive in the way 
> it recommends against permitted topics, although I think this is 
> unintentional. If the goal is to make participants aware of these 
> issues, my suggested descriptive text is fine. If the goal is to protect 
> the IETF, I think the current text is actually worse than the status quo.
> 
> thanks,
> Rob
>