Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-nottingham-where-does-that-come-from-00.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sat, 13 March 2021 01:09 UTC

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To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, gendispatch@ietf.org
References: <161551347322.9380.3417782072654776845@ietfa.amsl.com> <7a5f3d29-2ffe-b47e-59e9-f69eaa228f70@gmail.com> <e591223f-1bc7-0330-abf4-4246e1ca5c9f@network-heretics.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 14:09:11 +1300
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Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-nottingham-where-does-that-come-from-00.txt
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On 13-Mar-21 13:42, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 3/12/21 3:53 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> 
>> I think this section is actively harmful. The canonical place for all RFCs is rfc-editor.org; I think that we should very likely deprecate copies in any other domains (although those domains should certainly have pointers to the canonical copies).
>>
>> Really, RFCs have no place in the IETF data tracker, except as pointers.
> 
> Given the long history and very widespread practice of mirroring RFCs to numerous sites, and having seen many times how useful this can be, I really doubt it's a good idea to start discouraging this practice, even by the ietf.org site.

I agree that lots of mirrors of the canonical versions is a Good Thing. Now that the RFC Editor is showing the htmlized version for older RFCs, as well as the modern html versions, I think we should encourage all mirrors to carry them too. But what the draft seems to suggest is a *partial* mirror. That's a Bad Idea IMHO.
 
> (now if ietf.org wants to mirror RFCs at rfc-mirrors.ietf.org and issue redirects to the latter domain, that probably wouldn't bother me)
> 
> Relying entirely on a single site makes things more fragile, and RFCs should IMO be widely replicated in order to limit the potential for access to them to be restricted either accidentally or deliberately.   (It's not  as if RFCs never say things that are inconvenient to powerful parties.)
> 
>>>  2.2. Internet-Drafts
>>>
>>> The following recommendations apply to the publication of Internet-Drafts.
>> The problem here is that draft-foo-bar has no intrinsic link to any of the streams. A differentiation can only be made later, if the draft becomes draft-ietf-bar or draft-irtf-bar. So how would we algorithmically classify draft-nottingham-quic-new-idea or draft-nottingham-where-does-that-come-from?
> 
> Maybe we don't need to solve that problem.   IMO even I-Ds that have been adopted by a working group are still not blessed by IETF and shouldn't be given any elevated status in the minds of the general public until they've been published in final form.

Well, that's a bit vague in the draft. If it was more precisely defined, we could discuss it further.

    Brian
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
>