Re: [Gendispatch] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Sun, 23 October 2022 22:08 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2022 15:06:23 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt
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Document: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt

This draft seems generally reasonable. I have attached some comments
below. In regard to the gendispatch question, I think this could
potentially be AD sponsored but needs to continue to be subject
to community engagement (i.e., developed on a mailing list
and not just privately developed and Last Called). Do we have
a mechanism for that?

xoDETAILED COMMENTS
S 2.3.
   *  Additionally, the IETF must not be a forum where participants
      engage in problematic antitrust behavior, even if direct liability
      for that behavior falls on those participants and not the IETF, to
      avoid reputational harm to the IETF.

This seems like a good aspiration, but it doesn't seem to
have any enforcement mechanism, so perhaps it's more
in the nature of guidelines than actual rules.


S 4.1.
   Some topics are particularly inappropriate for discussion in a
   standards setting environment where representatives from competitors
   are likely to be present.  These topics include: product pricing,
   profit margins, business relationships between specific vendors and
   customers, details about particular supply chains, discussions about
   particular market opportunities, or employee compensation or
   benefits.  While not all discussions of these topics would

I think much of this is sensible, but I think perhaps needs some
narrowing.

* Product Pricing

To take an example, the cost of WebPKI certificates
(and the fact that Let's Encrypt offers them for free) is a
key design consideration in many discussions. More generally,
there are systems architectures (e.g., centralized service
provision) which are only compatible with some revenue
source (e.g., advertising) and this motivates other
designs (e.g., "decentralized Web"). I would hope that
this kind of discussion is out of scope.

I regret that I don't have a narrower phrase. Perhaps
"pricing of the products of ones employer"?


* Relationships between specific vendors and customers

This also seems somewhat difficult. For instance, it's
not uncommon to talk about services which are provided
in partnerships, as for instance, with ISRG providing
service for Apple and Google in their Exposure Notification
PPM deployment. Perhaps something like
"specific business terms between ..."



S 4.2.

   *  Evaluating the relative implementation costs of two technical
      alternatives to decide whether one is significantly more feasible
      in the market and thus a better candidate for standardization.

As mnot notes, we do this all the time, so this guidance really
just reduces to "ask your lawyer". It would be useful for this
draft to provide some guidance here.

-Ekr

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 11:08 AM Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> This is a comprehensive rewrite (largely by Brad) to reflect both the
> community feedback and advice from lawyers.
>
> Please read and comment,
>
> Thank you,
>
> Joel
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:12:18 -0700
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>
>
> Title : Antitrust Guidelines for IETF Particiants
> Authors : Joel M. Halpern
> Brad Biddle
> Jay Daley
> Filename : draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.txt
> Pages : 7
> Date : 2022-10-22
>
> Abstract:
> This document provides guidance for IETF participants on compliance
> with antitrust laws and how to reduce antitrust risks in connection
> with IETF activities.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust/
>
> There is also an HTML version available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03.html
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-03
>
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org:
> :internet-drafts
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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