Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-eggert-bcp45bis-01.txt

Mark Nottingham <> Wed, 31 March 2021 06:12 UTC

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From: Mark Nottingham <>
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 17:12:02 +1100
Cc: Lars Eggert <>, Eliot Lear <>,
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To: Stephen Farrell <>
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Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-eggert-bcp45bis-01.txt
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On 30 Mar 2021, at 10:49 pm, Stephen Farrell <> wrote:
>> I think draft-nottingham-discussion-recharter makes a pretty
>> convincing case  isn't a general list for the IETF
>> community (= the "union" I mentioned above), and probably hasn't been
>> for quite some time.
> I don't agree that Mark's draft is convincing. I do think
> the topics raised are interesting and warrant debate some
> place/time, but I don't really agree with the fundamental
> ideas that representation and productivity are the most
> important characteristics for our broadest discussion venue.

If that's what you got from my draft, I didn't communicate well.

I want to be informed about new topics of interest in the IETF, whether they're announcements by leadership or discussions instigated by the community. However, IME the ietf@ list is a horrible venue for both tasks. Some will undoubtedly debate that, and I'm not really interested in convincing them. However, I feel quite strongly that ietf@ cannot and should not ever be considered the _canonical_ place for such tasks -- i.e., no one should ever be able to say 'well, it was discussed on ietf@, it's your fault you weren't there.'

One of the ways we can assure that it isn't considered as such is to establish alternatives. For example, we could set up a Discourse instance <> for people to ask IETF-wide questions, make proposals, or circulate ideas informally. With proper moderation, categorisation, and tagging, I suspect it would be a much more broadly used facility than the IETF list.


Mark Nottingham