Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-eggert-bcp45bis-01.txt

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Wed, 31 March 2021 06:12 UTC

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From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 17:12:02 +1100
Cc: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, Eliot Lear <lear=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, gendispatch@ietf.org
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References: <161701910454.13044.908232164554537032@ietfa.amsl.com> <55b4e061-f25d-8958-1e75-868bec0c735e@gmail.com> <D277EB6F-FDB1-4588-A77B-FC29B0FB782F@eggert.org> <963ED8F3-712F-4E8D-BF29-A3E7735E4641@mnot.net> <53AB2142-8BC2-43AC-86E7-EC9F1E72D9D3@cisco.com> <71B14C3D-AF8C-4C7F-9C14-03686F499E4D@eggert.org> <bf8d64d3-67d4-c6d0-d4e2-9ca424b9cd5b@cs.tcd.ie>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-eggert-bcp45bis-01.txt
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On 30 Mar 2021, at 10:49 pm, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:
> 
>> I think draft-nottingham-discussion-recharter makes a pretty
>> convincing case thatietf@ietf.org  isn't a general list for the IETF
>> community (= the "union" I mentioned above), and probably hasn't been
>> for quite some time.
> 
> I don't agree that Mark's draft is convincing. I do think
> the topics raised are interesting and warrant debate some
> place/time, but I don't really agree with the fundamental
> ideas that representation and productivity are the most
> important characteristics for our broadest discussion venue.

If that's what you got from my draft, I didn't communicate well.

I want to be informed about new topics of interest in the IETF, whether they're announcements by leadership or discussions instigated by the community. However, IME the ietf@ list is a horrible venue for both tasks. Some will undoubtedly debate that, and I'm not really interested in convincing them. However, I feel quite strongly that ietf@ cannot and should not ever be considered the _canonical_ place for such tasks -- i.e., no one should ever be able to say 'well, it was discussed on ietf@, it's your fault you weren't there.'

One of the ways we can assure that it isn't considered as such is to establish alternatives. For example, we could set up a Discourse instance <https://www.discourse.org> for people to ask IETF-wide questions, make proposals, or circulate ideas informally. With proper moderation, categorisation, and tagging, I suspect it would be a much more broadly used facility than the IETF list.

Cheers,

--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/