Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification - draft-eggert-bcp45bis-04.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 15 September 2021 20:56 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04A83A1158; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mnCoL7lI7DV6; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x536.google.com (mail-pg1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 591FC3A1157; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x536.google.com with SMTP id r2so3940923pgl.10; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/aVpnFhTvJcVNu1FWD8ZpwDQZ03q6MxckQUEuosD3v8=; b=Oz1zCnS/Tne6LfPceW8hN6c+qM76XBUraVWxvqRqDbYUSn7fxSzLVi72f3VHsrWUgA n7Vi8kwhEKOZsSx+f4HVsrbEvOdhKOFHy0hQBmK2m+UWz0FNcQlamFWXf8p2GWUDzGCw 1TjNHfyKtjtORsO+kL9wWz+bmPBL7UV7ZjP9xiTPXEIwR+SvbjNqjDfN9HAioJPxYv24 DjYGu1GXUcX5KORD023icLsaV3tRHERIO8eBy2FiIJ7mHMnirBFvBf7V1kHv9UNrgVtI x7068o1IEHrQBVBwvX1cP+vR92i2Iovu6meVGvyUf1/8tI/STPdkaQ9pP3cB+TmcHmKE C2jA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/aVpnFhTvJcVNu1FWD8ZpwDQZ03q6MxckQUEuosD3v8=; b=y4fFL1prKtEgCu/V8TohKfx32bQG/oDDsH2DLp3ciUTjvR16Bbp2J1LwDOOFfI0RG7 Ru+Ld7JVZLnGyB1d9XODUIKI+R/q38QC+Zdwdhqx9JB3KB84h3geOUGQ6FGpN7xVT8rb nKe7mMSJ+onwv822B7/MO2dbSDkVkQybkPn85Dz/w+NhFEOMWXPB8qH8L3z4qm+w3pJn ILIVx0AqzRHUIJx2b7HDbKZ15wzphhjkZlHkDDO4eJaMWABdC+3TZf4QxDza6URlfg3J zT6prWYXtIZHeVCe5Ln6YqVGp52O2jEYjHDEhgbafYEqSqjWnYgCP+8rpW4QhPBkKWlK WTJQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532xCjl3ivljBnz0ZIAQwM2jT1pERrSFZthP+ZUhzI7MhC3s5QG7 Bs1VfxlXyQLwdpitOtiigNTj+lx+//+ejQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxDLin1nr/qKPo0d6f1vaVFm4N9Ko3G5xlbtbvpo7StuG2XuQz9bOhJPhZhhuL/bMbqPBbq4Q==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:aa4c:: with SMTP id x12mr1580594pgo.211.1631739357851; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:55:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:11aa:d701:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:11aa:d701:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u12sm485461pjx.31.2021.09.15.13.55.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>
Cc: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, GENDISPATCH List <gendispatch@ietf.org>, "draft-eggert-bcp45bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-eggert-bcp45bis.all@ietf.org>
References: <0a918f8f-b2bd-4756-b0f5-23ff8063f1e8@gmail.com> <B45896C1-F9F1-44F6-9BF7-8AF9B573233C@eggert.org> <CANMZLAbubQckiU8GCdYLaVbfSPmDsRuURQY-LEw1JTvxxfbjZQ@mail.gmail.com> <DM4PR11MB543899B05B3BD7AD92459B3FB5DB9@DM4PR11MB5438.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0c85067c-b45d-8c46-1a96-eb9ae536f7c9@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 08:55:50 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <DM4PR11MB543899B05B3BD7AD92459B3FB5DB9@DM4PR11MB5438.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/bFztCXs9fMwOky_nmAGEYHwxhaY>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification - draft-eggert-bcp45bis-04.txt
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:56:06 -0000

On 15-Sep-21 20:47, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
> I’ve not seen any further comments on this thread since Saturday.
> 
>  
> 
> My interpretation is that Lars and Barry are supportive of this change.
> 
>  
> 
> Brian, my interpretation is that Lar’s proposed text is acceptable to you.  Please clarify if this is not the case.

It's acceptable. In my experience, IESG members have always known when to 
recuse themselves.

    Brian

> 
>  
> 
> I would like to wait until Friday to see if there are any further comments on Lar’s proposed text.  If there are no strong objections then on Friday I’ll ask Lars to post a -05 with the change and 
I’ll kick off IETF LC.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rob
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 11 September 2021 08:38
> *To:* Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>
> *Cc:* Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>rg>; GENDISPATCH List <gendispatch@ietf.org>rg>; draft-eggert-bcp45bis.all@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification - draft-eggert-bcp45bis-04.txt
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Lars,
> 
> Since 2026 doesn't mention conflict of interest, that's probably the procedure. Not entirely satisfactory, but we could live with it.
> 
> Regards,
>     Brian Carpenter
>     (via tiny screen & keyboard)
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2021, 17:37 Lars Eggert, <lars@eggert.org <mailto:lars@eggert.org>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Brian,
> 
>     Is that an option in your reading of 2026? They way I understand it 
is that if the AD is conflicted, the entire IESG is the next step?
> 
>     Thanks,
>     Lars
> 
>     -- 
>     Sent from a mobile device; please excuse typos.
> 
>     > On Sep 10, 2021, at 23:20, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     > On 10-Sep-21 23:01, Barry Leiba wrote:
>     >> That works for me, Lars, and thanks.
>     >>
>     >> I see Brian's point about Gen AD instead of IETF Chair, but I don't
>     >> agree with it here, because the SAAs are explicitly appointed by 
the
>     >> IETF Chair, not related to the Gen Area.
>     >
>     > You're correct. There's still the corner case where the IETF Chair is
>     > conflicted - for example, if the message(s) objected to by the SAAs
>     > made allegations about the IETF Chair themself. Probably another AD
>     > should be the first recourse in that case.
>     >
>     >   Brian
>     >
>     >>
>     >> Barry
>     >>
>     >>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 3:11 AM Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org <mailto:lars@eggert.org>> wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>> Hi,
>     >>>
>     >>> I have a proposed change to use the normal RFC2026 appeals process in https://github.com/larseggert/bcp45bis/pull/7/files <https://github.com/larseggert/bcp45bis/pull/7/files>. This is the current change:
>     >>>
>     >>> --- a/draft-eggert-bcp45bis.md
>     >>> +++ b/draft-eggert-bcp45bis.md
>     >>> @@ -192,8 +192,8 @@ manner.
>     >>>
>     >>> Because an SAA serves at the discretion of the IETF Chair - even if the IETF
>     >>> Chair is not otherwise involved in the operation of the SAA team - any SAA
>     >>> -decision could be appealed to the IAB. The IAB shall then review the situation
>     >>> -and attempt to resolve it in a manner of its own choosing.
>     >>> +decision can be appealed to the IETF Chair, per {{!RFC2026}}. Decisions by the
>     >>> +IETF Chair can be appealed to the IESG as whole, again per {{!RFC2026}}.
>     >>>
>     >>> # Security Considerations
>     >>>
>     >>> Please let me know if this expresses what is desired?
>     >>>
>     >>> Thanks,
>     >>> Lars
>     >>>
>     >
>     > --
>     > Gendispatch mailing list
>     > Gendispatch@ietf.org <mailto:Gendispatch@ietf.org>
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>
>