Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Wed, 24 February 2021 09:40 UTC

Return-Path: <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C520C3A12C2; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 01:40:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s-0Jv9skwsRT; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 01:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx3.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74F653A12C3; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 01:39:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from imap.open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx3.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 79F0D6A23B; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:39:44 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1614159584; bh=Rlh+bdDsqgCpPRZPojaABXGBgJHbXAoTJgX04WgJcNc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=SWFayiYpMkQ8ztx1hdjz+m2ZjuSiJvww/3hJ4qLbNwN60wSMcDutxesSPEEanbVEn q9nQDYw18Wr963npuuqFDxGsOhQocUUCiYsivJK0l9plksBJPCNukfL9NMt+H3aCi0 krQzSLGaBOznk3sq5qIm4JJzQlC7FAETj400tbG/FqoCR9JF4Y12Qx348hEfzebrDM MZglPAh2lX64ZxyDsIVIi3DdcLo3k7eN5aMXc5gzl6BVzeeO6+3EY9mbQ7u7hlkI40 QJn4hLZ4fH70Bf9Vk+pPEruDSUDwO44wGvdNPxf17Mw2+iknPT4FpHbtX6D5zpDvGJ +ChW1CyZ3G7fw==
Received: from appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com ([10.20.28.81]) by imap.open-xchange.com with ESMTPSA id FSW1HeAeNmBaDAAA3c6Kzw (envelope-from <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>); Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:39:44 +0100
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:39:44 +0100
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Cc: GENDISPATCH List <gendispatch@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <1384196287.69381.1614159584429@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR08MB37163BD6FC65DBF03D1ABC05FA9F9@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <37eecb9b-f0eb-e21c-b162-b1f0339e4981@si6networks.com> <AM0PR08MB37168C83CF19A3CDFEF15FD8FA809@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <1fdfebbf-58ab-0f18-da53-ec06d9953c5f@gmail.com> <CAHBDyN6-AGMzgeyzxRHyGCtgSMWxQt+hh-mDn49XAYT7NbC0dg@mail.gmail.com> <AM0PR08MB37163BD6FC65DBF03D1ABC05FA9F9@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_69379_745955489.1614159584417"
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.5-Rev5
X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/d9soy53YO7oQZV6QuO5Hs7pQzOg>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:40:01 -0000

>     Il 24/02/2021 08:22 Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@arm.com> ha scritto:
> 
> 
>     The culture of hands-on work needs to be more than a responsibility of the document authors. It is a culture that has to cut across the organization, from working group chairs to the IESG. Currently, there are disincentives to work on code as a document author.
> 
>     I want people with hands-on experience in the leadership of an engineering organization. For me this is a form of diversity.
> 
The question is whether you *only* (mostly) want coders in the leadership, or whether you *also* want coders in the leadership. This makes a lot of difference in evaluating your position.

Coming from my own IETF experience, which of course is just about a small subset of everything that is happening here, I'd say that the IETF has the opposite problem - the IETF does not seem to have a way, or even the desire, to acquire non-technical perspectives on what it is doing, so whenever a new protocol ends up prompting significant regulatory, business or social changes, they seem to come unexpectedly; the non-technical stakeholders that were not involved in the design phase get mad at the IETF, and the people at the IETF are surprised (sometimes even offended) by that reaction. And then you get a debate on whether code is law or not and whether the socio-economic implications of new technologies have to be considered by the technologists, which I thought we had closed forever at the turn of the century.

(But sorry, possibly this is not a discussion in topic for gendispatch - it is more for a new WG on diversity and inclusiveness ;-) )

--

Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com mailto:vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com 
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy