[Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity
Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com> Wed, 07 April 2021 16:35 UTC
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From: Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 12:35:17 -0400
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Subject: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity
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Having watched dozens of standards bodies like the IETF try to assess themselves for the past forty plus years - generally not well - this list seems to follow the norm. There are a relative handful of people on this list, and the participation is highly skewed. 3/4 of the posts are from just 21 people who are almost all insiders perpetuating status. Perhaps the most significant issue facing the IETF was raised by Phil on 31 March - namely that the lack of transparency of interest is an increasing challenge to the organisation - especially with anticompetitive behavior becoming the subject of regulatory scrutiny and litigation. The metrics of this list underscores the challenge - the principal proponents and decision shapers/makers lack attribution. During Steve Lukasik's last years, he viewed the IETF as one of his principal failures. It was a great idea when he signed off on its initial precursor formation to get out-of-the-box collaboration among the researchers that DARPA was funding. Attribution as well as collaboration incentives existed through the funding mechanisms. However, when it was cut loose in the 1990s, any sense of attribution of individual contributors and decision shapers was lost. As Phil notes, it opened the door was opened for all kinds of mischief; and in contrast to almost all other standards bodies, the IETF is alone in avoiding attribution. Getting the LLC to buy more liability insurance has its limits. The IETF's diversity challenge is also tied into the lack of transparency. If you crunch the numbers and examine how relatively few registrants for IETF meetings continue their participation, the organization is effectively self-distilling around a set of hardy perennials who are motivated by un-attributed factors to stick with the organization to pursue some obscure objectives. Indeed, the IETF's substantial insularity and institutional self-aggrandisement coupled with a set of rapidly evolving technologies progressed in other far more active and effective bodies, does not bode well. So all of the above suggest that maintaining a generic IETF discourse list is probably a good thing. --tony r Posts %/posts accum % From attribution ? 76 10.1% 10.1% Keith Moore network-heretics.com 68 9.0% 19.0% Brian E Carpenter gmail.com 61 8.1% 27.1% Fernando Gont gont.com.ar 42 5.6% 32.7% Dan Harkins lounge.org 41 5.4% 38.1% Pete Resnick episteme.net 40 5.3% 43.4% Salz, Rich akamai.com 24 3.2% 46.6% Francesca Palombini ericsson.com 24 3.2% 49.7% Rob Sayre gmail.com 20 2.6% 52.4% Alissa Cooper cooperw.in 20 2.6% 55.0% Eliot Lear cisco.com 18 2.4% 57.4% Lars Eggert eggert.org 18 2.4% 59.8% Niels ten Oever digitaldissidents.org 16 2.1% 61.9% Eric Rescorla rtfm.com 16 2.1% 64.0% Mark Nottingham mnot.net 16 2.1% 66.1% Stephen Farrell cs.tcd.ie 15 2.0% 68.1% Bron Gondwana fastmailteam.com 15 2.0% 70.1% Joel M. Halpern joelhalpern.com 12 1.6% 71.7% Christian Huitema huitema.net 12 1.6% 73.3% John Levine taugh.com 11 1.5% 74.7% Jay Daley ietf.org 11 1.5% 76.2% Livingood, Jason comcast.com
- [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Kyle Rose
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our plenar… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Andrew Campling
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Andrew Campling
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Dan Harkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Jay Daley
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Jay Daley
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Nico Williams
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Pete Resnick
- [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Nico Williams
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Jay Daley
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Andrew Campling