Re: [Gendispatch] I-D Action: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-00.txt

[Rob Sayre <[e-mail]>]

Hi,

I think I understand the motivation here, but I'm not sure the text is
right.

  " As the IETF is a standards development environment where
   representatives from competitors are highly likely to be present,
   participants should not discuss the following topics:

   *  product pricing
   *  profit margins
   *  business relationships between specific vendors and customers
   *  details of particular supply chains
   *  specific market opportunities
   *  employee compensation or benefits

   While not all discussions of these topics would necessarily be
   antitrust violations, prudence suggests that avoiding these topics
   altogether best mitigates antitrust risks."

So, clearly, using an IETF list to agree on pricing is not appropriate (and
not very intelligent, imo).

But, is it wrong to point out "business relationships between specific
vendors and customers" in evaluating an I-D? I am not sure that is the
case, and this draft seems to preclude such discussion. How else would one
raise venue-shopping or rubber-stamping?

thanks,
Rob

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 3:24 PM Stephen Farrell <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>
> Hmm. I think "should not discuss" and that list are too high
> or the wrong barrier. I reckon it'd take some discussion to
> get that right. I don't object to trying to get it right, but
> would object to the current text.
>
> As an example, it seems to me entirely fine to (carefully:-) discuss the
> fact that a thing(*) is unencumbered as far as
> we know and how that affects implementations that might use
> that thing, especially those taking an open source approach.
>
> Cheers,
> S.
>
> (*) s/thing/codec/ or s/thing/encryption alg/ both work with
> differences.
>
> On 03/09/2021 23:07, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> > Thankyou for this draft. Assuming the question will be put, I strongly
> support dispatching it ASAP as an individual submission sponsored by the
> General AD.
> >
> > I have one suggestion. The Recommendations very correctly list 'product
> pricing' as a forbidden topic. That should probably be 'product and service
> pricing'. However, a topic of technical importance in service provision is
> *metrics* used for measuring services. I think the draft could usefully
> discuss the dividing line between technical specifications of metrics (OK),
> mechanisms for communicating metrics (OK), mechanisms for communicating
> pricing of metrics (presumably OK), worked examples with example monetary
> values (presumably OK) and actual monetary values (not OK).
> >
> > FYA: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-carpenter-metrics-00
> >
> > Regards
> >     Brian Carpenter
> >
> > On 31-Aug-21 13:42, [e-mail] wrote:
> >>
> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> >>
> >>
> >>          Title           : Antitrust Guidelines for IETF Particiants
> >>          Authors         : Joel M. Halpern
> >>                            Brad Biddle
> >>                            Jay Daley
> >>      Filename        : draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-00.txt
> >>      Pages           : 6
> >>      Date            : 2021-08-30
> >>
> >> Abstract:
> >>     This document provides guidance for IETF participants on compliance
> >>     with antitrust laws and how to reduce antitrust risks in connection
> >>     with IETF activities.
> >>
> >>
> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust/
> >>
> >> There is also an HTML version available at:
> >>
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-00.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> I-D-Announce mailing list
> >> [e-mail]
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >>
> >
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