Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF

"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Thu, 25 February 2021 23:49 UTC

Return-Path: <rsalz@akamai.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96AD3A11E2; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 15:49:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.669
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.57, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Rz9aXezsjKZ; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 15:49:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 098DB3A11E0; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 15:49:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0050095.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 11PNiQal005840; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:49:39 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=jan2016.eng; bh=fmOvv6O77ZQpcBkM8eymN2BF646HFz6xx+x0Doj8zmM=; b=l194KBnMT5I6Pg9kbBXYfUDreaaiRwAbeD1c2WvRK7EFf/ic6LnU4HA9ZO74T/udGiAy Acjiop11W5OpGE3TrVaCNx8RVUwExLfski+P1aGZ8mYNlZTqCisZIWjHnFvoeEiSstdU ldbxa6Ce7DR2Z4xtppsZ09mudv6TMIA8jVWc+utaBpIaH8m+j/rUOkjrfREVF5QE6M6l tSSGVtJhoQ910wPywm9iG/zIF5u8zfg7CQW3lOAbcLtxUZofkbcbJHB6qSe8G0W8BJOA OaF1KK278E4kkEPeYYkPcCyl3YEoVIxSwFVWVGeMa+eZXAjamXc1vbI45JNGp3U0lj47 0Q==
Received: from prod-mail-ppoint4 (a72-247-45-32.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.247.45.32] (may be forged)) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. with ESMTP id 36xhym7vet-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:49:39 +0000
Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 11PNmoQO010604; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 18:49:38 -0500
Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.112]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com with ESMTP id 36txn5sy4k-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 25 Feb 2021 18:49:38 -0500
Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:49:38 -0600
Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.010; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 17:49:38 -0600
From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
CC: "gendispatch@ietf.org" <gendispatch@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF
Thread-Index: AQHXCXgXoQVfadhZ+E21nk+elDffBqplh9IAgABCsgCAAAYtgIADu0gAgAAENgD//8VnAIAAVpSA//+wJQCAAFmlgP//rngAAArunID//67OgIAAVnmAgAAHhgD//79fgIAAVgwA///BeIA=
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:49:37 +0000
Message-ID: <7E0F4F4E-8BD2-4D1A-B998-2F4B09DA1DF4@akamai.com>
References: <37eecb9b-f0eb-e21c-b162-b1f0339e4981@si6networks.com> <3c2d646d-f18d-4d88-b458-29dbd486432b@beta.fastmail.com> <446A8D6B-E624-49E0-B67E-D1F8AFC794E2@lastpresslabel.com> <28ac1e86-f641-b9e8-0f61-6ff442feaa90@si6networks.com> <LO2P265MB057322BA95B1B44D4175356BC29E9@LO2P265MB0573.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <b24ce0e9-8912-12b1-af8a-6024ae83288f@si6networks.com> <25E1B1D5-E8F1-4053-A1E0-6B2948577E84@akamai.com> <3a8dca6d-0aca-d578-0f7a-3f68e2811bad@si6networks.com> <9FBF7792-8507-45F2-B06C-2173BCDF7D4C@akamai.com> <4fc62af0-cbf0-c923-5e24-fc0dfc1de996@si6networks.com> <B8DDE7D2-0105-45D5-93FB-34FF8561D888@akamai.com> <d5854cb1-ff93-6284-5106-93dd8a06f6f1@si6networks.com> <F758F440-55ED-44DE-A613-C19C3BE14160@akamai.com> <CABcZeBMutHGPKyAS+Apq-zAUjXRcpfEvAGPDuB6oejGkfkEtCw@mail.gmail.com> <b478aa64-43cd-e0f7-1913-974f7c8a191b@si6networks.com> <8B649927-DC39-4E59-95F9-A83C3CD8F494@akamai.com> <3c5b4c2a-e770-6809-5649-76adf15c67ba@si6networks.com>
In-Reply-To: <3c5b4c2a-e770-6809-5649-76adf15c67ba@si6networks.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.46.21021202
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <FCFB90D442BEDE42900B05739B518344@akamai.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.369, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-02-25_15:2021-02-24, 2021-02-25 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=472 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102250181
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.369, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-02-25_15:2021-02-24, 2021-02-25 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=339 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102250180
X-Agari-Authentication-Results: mx.akamai.com; spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.32) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint4
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/hZA8_n6Sgd0IkaAhQYUBmxf_RMc>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:49:43 -0000

>    When you're changing the way of contributing, you're not universally 
    "reducing the barrier". -- certainly not for somebody that does't do git.

The IETF has not changed the way people contribute.  Drafts are still posted to the datatracker, mailing lists still exist for feedback and comment (and must be used for confirming consensus, etc).  Just because there are more paths into the datatracker now.  I mean, probably around 1985-1995 we all just FTP'd the documents we wanted to read.  Is anyone going to argue that it's not easier now?

>    Point taken. So... mailing list are seen as a problematic mechanism to 
    carry our work?

For some people I think the answer is yes.  It seems that overall use of email is declining, but it's hard to get real numbers without getting tangled up in email marketing newsletter business.  But I feel like you keep trying to have me make blanket assertions and I don't want to do that.