Re: [Gendispatch] Ending

Nico Williams <> Wed, 07 April 2021 04:26 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D063A3E59 for <>; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:26:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.119
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ni4B83NQFIS5 for <>; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:26:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 224543A3E58 for <>; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|
Received: from (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EF7482B33; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 04:26:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from (100-101-162-28.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local []) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3E8B5482E12; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 04:26:38 +0000 (UTC)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by (trex/6.1.1); Wed, 07 Apr 2021 04:26:40 +0000
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost
X-Minister-Bubble: 122ba8d5596a5cfc_1617769600516_3983768619
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1617769600516:2363297288
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1617769600516
Received: from (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id D183387586; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 04:26:37 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed;; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to;; bh=uGGGXdxEaO97Ub AHrtr7bA6Tjso=; b=mCcbTk/NDIyi/69Flj42kPCEaqYICC1+fQCuejx/Jb8kkH CUpAUlLqxVmF09G0AOIS4tUTQGVLqe7P8rs+SOAA9/LfC77V9cIe+fwE47HrTICd /RSfmWTSFASRsF3V+kjPxF/fhQzRmLPnVpNiGYp69C58Es31OMRoXMu7p5Jx0=
Received: from localhost (unknown []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: by (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 218CF87585; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 04:26:35 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 23:26:33 -0500
X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a23
From: Nico Williams <>
To: Rob Sayre <>
Message-ID: <20210407042530.GV3828@localhost>
References: <> <> <> <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28)
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Ending
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 04:26:47 -0000

On Tue, Apr 06, 2021 at 03:15:16PM -0700, Rob Sayre wrote:
> The opposing argument is that the list is such a terrible
> place that it is not driving cohesion, and is actively harmful.

You keep saying this.  The subtext I hear is that you find specific
individuals (or what they say) harmful.  There isn't a very large
plausible list of such individuals for you to so dislike, so I think
this is pretty close to a personal attack on them (us??).  Please tell
me I'm wrong.

So this is how it is.  Attacking a group of unidentified participants is
OK.  Naming the people one is attacking, is not OK.  Except that if the
group of unidentified participants being attacked is small enough and
easy enough for anyone who cares to to identify, then that has to be
violating the spirit of the rules if not the letter of the rules.  And
also probably committing libel.  Once people start losing jobs or
business, we'll have several participants here having incurred civil
liability for libel, to say nothing of the IESG and ISOC -- let's not
even think of reaching that stage.

Henceforth I will call out every instance of name calling, implicit or
explicit, that I find on these threads.  I've already started, as you've
seen.  I've had enough.  No more implying that Viktor, Dan, myself, or
any others who disagree with you are bigots, racists, or whatever.  Stop

No more bullying.  No more name calling.  No more intimidation.