IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 29 September 2023 20:03 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5481C151070 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.197
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.091, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hIFgEiY4ExH5 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x102d.google.com (mail-pj1-x102d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B97AC14CE40 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x102d.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2773af0c5dbso8191151a91.1 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1696017817; x=1696622617; darn=ietf.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=j/pzc2RJsPzpdkzcmm7Pj8wSDoPs323Z3rNdMiyh3Cs=; b=be8nOXeDXPqYkaR46J9InH5yO6Y4cqMCbpfWDMgfmQXO8OaOsZ8F6DABfoetYwj97l uCUEpwVGJnnOwuzPZkV7rOAt38W9dWbc9PWJ2zSCOwBP+LhkRvIPMHqqP5OlWjiuXvHF NbqqnxmLuM63LhDYCZSDT1Uj/EqxRyCHpxgnUsHNMOdKZfgxiT+5RHGtJ61jTnfzKcDG T1xEhWfgEqDrUG5Q5KVKp9hCLCZrWYLyo0Y88vFBlEi1CtswVkb908DiVbYFc4Vi9Uqj 0xN58HnHmiRrDXOrSQQFNGezr5jWN/nGc0cUryGuQyYY3Wmpavy440EBNmFK6pKTAR6s fwsQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1696017817; x=1696622617; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=j/pzc2RJsPzpdkzcmm7Pj8wSDoPs323Z3rNdMiyh3Cs=; b=vMPLaXPLjCuLA3VPuhghaUkCOS1p1Hb5Q3Y89lclqJzrZxJkp0GyRszg86XFpb32/V bYGc08PrMBtuLjByEYKoIyPPqXptK5Coe2ty1trjXvomYIYon9LblpIikS28hd4e+0fE EFcRKDtf011Ipl5CagILJn0Rr0E9BirKoSMQEL4R5RrRPfJLFolYOEnhLfLnRXZTY5LD eokYB3tqsrbYCBCkHcsNJwJgINAbCYlGmLWybw1t8k/MoZVvCVj41Xtaw4mYL5xkhe66 wFEtLQTajUFoSLvupf+ViG2I3ZGtF3zNUkVYtf6BlNot/gK0eURW5h2eaUpY1qcoYG1r 6oLg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy+9XZONxZrAORXJ2Ebm9T4ZGk9nOxLABDb2+coAmZ0GGU4eUVH Bh5RhUYaBevtjX3JCRE1j74=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFeHENHIDPtLIIrRGEjEFP4aJRcCX1qZdvZ2uoSmiEmUm27s4o5lvAwxtHb4HCSL+FXTHrUtg==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3012:b0:269:2682:11fb with SMTP id hg18-20020a17090b301200b00269268211fbmr5144307pjb.8.1696017816284; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPV6:2406:e003:110d:5301:8cb6:a2c:7461:4047? ([2406:e003:110d:5301:8cb6:a2c:7461:4047]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bj16-20020a17090b089000b00276a58e37c1sm1873140pjb.38.2023.09.29.13.03.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <840dd8ed-c6f5-ed16-9edf-23179e057b22@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:03:30 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.10.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Cc: gendispatch@ietf.org
References: <169587871859.41935.17692726615817157868@ietfa.amsl.com> <3c7a5635-6a18-445e-9483-22ebfe31e1d5@betaapp.fastmail.com> <a970d95a-fbdc-8271-bbbc-889de7c6ac87@joelhalpern.com> <CABcZeBNgdb4ZtEqVeG6D=H617UrHG9SgktmZaLG_TjKZFMVvZg@mail.gmail.com> <17e3ec59-7568-4636-09f2-f4be9cf0f0d5@joelhalpern.com> <CABcZeBNzG+Gs_GZO1pdFfEirkMGU3SQpyimy4FXy0byk3SxStg@mail.gmail.com> <17154a5c-1483-9509-4fe2-bf8aba82f2e8@joelhalpern.com> <5f6b1c1e-9054-61d0-a5ea-4a205c1eeecf@gmail.com> <0050d192-e799-4342-978c-208901a03fef@betaapp.fastmail.com> <6d322942-fba4-489d-b3bb-802ff06e87bf@lear.ch> <9FD5A234-40B5-46C8-8A6E-881C2C075FD0@mnot.net> <6bdd91d7-f061-4fc1-b671-292b19717198@lear.ch> <99a22584-3b9e-4b3b-9bb1-e5ef0c0e8c32@betaapp.fastmail.com> <3518e0eb-4974-4a28-a755-da10a2c88194@lear.ch>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <3518e0eb-4974-4a28-a755-da10a2c88194@lear.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/oxt9lv4F64IVZjpOs_9x-MFjAlE>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.txt
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 20:03:42 -0000

On 29-Sep-23 20:21, Eliot Lear wrote:
> 
> On 29.09.23 09:11, Martin Thomson wrote:
>>> That sort of thing has happened in the past and been effective.  If your prediction is that this will be less effective in the future, that's a bad outcome, but copyright won't be the thing that saves us.
>>>
> The IAB and IESG do not have the power of injunctive relief.

Exactly. Asserting copyright is the *only* legal tool with international reach that the IETF (and the other RFC manufacturers) have. We would be extremely foolish to relinquish it. The IETF can waive the derivative rights rule for any specific case where it's desirable**, so I fail to see the point of any extra rule-making.

** https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5378.html#section-3.1 says: "The IETF may also decide to permit others to develop derivative works based on Contributions."

The statement by the Trust at https://trustee.ietf.org/about/faq/#reproducing-rfcs that "The IETF Trust does not in general grant the right to create derivative works of RFCs; in fact it does not have the right to do so, under the current IETF rules (RFC 5378)." is not quite the whole story.  If the IETF decides to waive the rule for a given document and third party, the Trust has no choice but to grant a licence.

     Brian

v2.39.1 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status