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(8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-22ubuntu3) with ESMTPSA id 38S7LHKo3197791 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Sep 2023 09:21:18 +0200 Message-ID: <250697f1-ecd8-4401-97de-971f1730c6fa@lear.ch> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 09:21:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: Martin Thomson , gendispatch@ietf.org References: <169587871859.41935.17692726615817157868@ietfa.amsl.com> <3c7a5635-6a18-445e-9483-22ebfe31e1d5@betaapp.fastmail.com> From: Eliot Lear Autocrypt: addr=lear@lear.ch; keydata= xsBNBFMe1UQBCADdYOS5APDpIpF2ohAxB+nxg1GpAYr8iKwGIb86Wp9NkK5+QwbW9H035clT lpVLciExtN8E3MCTPOIm7aITPlruixAVwlBY3g7U9eRppSw9O2H/7bie2GOnYxqmsw4v1yNZ 9NcMLlD8raY0UcQ5r698c8JD4xUTLqybZXaK2sPeJkxzT+IwupRSQ+vXEvFFGhERQ88zo5Ca Sa1Gw/Rv54oH0Dq2XYkO41rhxQ60BKZLZuQK1d9+1y3I+An3AJeD3AA31fJZD3H8YRKOBgqe ILPILbw1mM7gCtCjfvFCt6AFCwEsjITGx55ceoQ+t5B5XGYJEppMWsIFrwZsfbL+gP31ABEB AAHNGUVsaW90IExlYXIgPGxlYXJAbGVhci5jaD7CwI4EEwECADgCGwMCHgECF4AWIQSY0L2Q 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From: Eliot Lear To: Martin Thomson , gendispatch@ietf.org Message-ID: <250697f1-ecd8-4401-97de-971f1730c6fa@lear.ch> Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] New Version Notification for draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.txt References: <169587871859.41935.17692726615817157868@ietfa.amsl.com> <3c7a5635-6a18-445e-9483-22ebfe31e1d5@betaapp.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3c7a5635-6a18-445e-9483-22ebfe31e1d5@betaapp.fastmail.com> --------------K8wCVEi7SkODUxMaTPjdXgSd Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------mztVGXZeurGyqmwCBpyCnqkD" --------------mztVGXZeurGyqmwCBpyCnqkD Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------eTe6LYjFxArSS7iADcmvznk2" --------------eTe6LYjFxArSS7iADcmvznk2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIHdvcnRoIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gaW4gUHJhZ3VlLg0KDQogICogSSdk IGFzayB0aGF0IHdlIHRha2UgdGhpcyBvbmUgc3RlcCBhdCBhIHRpbWUuwqAgV2UndmUgaGFk 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I think this is worth discussion in Prague.

  • I'd ask that we take this one step at a time.=C2=A0 We've had problems in the past with other standards organizations "borrowing" our works, and that can lead to interoperability a= nd security issues.=C2=A0 There have been different variants of both= TCP and TLS, for instance.=C2=A0 That should not be encouraged= =2E=C2=A0

    To this end, there should be an approval process for granting other organizations the right to make derivative works.=C2=A0 To cover other streams, that approval process can be stream-specific.=C2=A0 I would be concerned if the IESG bottled u= p new work and ALSO didn't allow for derivative works, but there may be times when that is appropriate.=C2=A0 A good example would= be a nascent standard.

  • Apart from branding, IANA code points and processes need to be protected.=C2=A0 The same code point should not be used to identi= fy a derivative work; and registries defined by a derivative work should NOT be managed by IANA unless they are IETF works.=C2=A0 A= ny new license should reflect this.

Eliot

On 28.09.23 07:50, Martin Thomson wrote:
I raised a question during t=
he IETF 117 plenary.


https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-thomson-=
gendispatch-rfc-derivatives-00.html
https://datatracker.ie=
tf.org/doc/html/draft-thomson-gendispatch-rfc-derivatives

Abstract:

   The IETF Trust holds rights to RFCs.  This document updates RFC 5377
   to request that the IETF Trust change its licensing for IETF
   documents to permit the creation of derivative works.

This is a relatively simple request, but - based on previous discussions =
on this subject - I'm sure it will be quite controversial.

Firstly, there is no plan (at least that I'm aware of) to fork the IETF o=
r to take any RFC to another venue.  The authors are pursuing this work b=
ecause we believe that it is the right thing to do. We believe that this =
change is consistent with the IETF mission and the principles of open sta=
ndards that this community abides by.

More liberal licensing on RFCs will make it easier for people to continue=
 with the maintenance of IETF work, especially when the IETF has no desir=
e or ability to do so itself.

This would go beyond the excerpting licenses that are included in some RF=
Cs (for example, RFC 6716), where people independently license their cont=
ributions independent of the license they grant the IETF Trust, or the in=
consistent fair use carve-outs that are available in some jurisdictions.

Some people have observed that this makes it easier to copy IETF work wit=
h the intent of confusing the market.  We have requested the inclusion of=
 what we think are reasonable conditions in the draft.  These conditions =
are targeted at the potential for misrepresentation and include a require=
ment to acknowledge the original and its authors, plus a stipulation that=
 protocols use a different name.

The best defense against this sort of abuse is not copyright protections.=
  My non-legally-trained understanding is that the IETF cannot copyright =
a protocol anyway, only its specification can be protected. Our best defe=
nse is the quality of the work performed here and the excellent reputatio=
n of this institution.

If there is time on the (already packed) gendispatch agenda, I'd apprecia=
te it if some time could be made for this topic.

Cheers,
Martin
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