[Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty
Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Fri, 23 May 2014 20:12 UTC
Return-Path: <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: geopriv@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: geopriv@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 511AE1A0031 for <geopriv@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 May 2014 13:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9JIFrd4PPsFT for <geopriv@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 May 2014 13:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com (mail-wi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DE521A001A for <geopriv@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 May 2014 13:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id r20so1400225wiv.1 for <geopriv@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 May 2014 13:12:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2o7Qy7it0tTL9iFn1v79W2L08o2LFUHGwcdFff7Fjko=; b=ns9buGbZv6USWxCAbWWsMI7mx5WNLqjKJjznmOzoBrQ1sic/vQUOLw9/K68+s5oOJT GCciFwPo/KRbg4LC23TPAYNqlF8m2QQNcM82RO2mZ1gz3OoSUqZ1mOnuXSO8w7t0GTiZ 3CPDpZwGawEkPmVQAagmZ2FMNLfDMvLATo3+P7cfTq5nJqZuyAgVmf08dzgpuDfRXxHz K9zET1c6p9n+dU+B2g/WsPbd7ALOx7V7B3UXsJxnWQlg8HltJbKCbKbEsyP8Eu+ayJ83 CFPQ5MSYE8p9QJiVWITi/cVpy2X0PIO80UOPsQJsMptiBkEczieFDJ8YLWm88YHjv98w QEog==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.93.101 with SMTP id ct5mr5225564wib.23.1400875940791; Fri, 23 May 2014 13:12:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.194.235.163 with HTTP; Fri, 23 May 2014 13:12:20 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 13:12:20 -0700
Message-ID: <CABkgnnWHaxgEKBbb8g0b3wAC1gujZ8XQqJngM+K=gG0Xtr3wuw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
To: GEOPRIV WG <geopriv@ietf.org>, Marc Linsner <mlinsner@cisco.com>, Roger Marshall <rmarshall@telecomsys.com>, Ray Bellis <Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/geopriv/OcYvQlguaUrOFlMKeNcCfMETEYY
Subject: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty
X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy <geopriv.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/geopriv>, <mailto:geopriv-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/geopriv/>
List-Post: <mailto:geopriv@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:geopriv-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv>, <mailto:geopriv-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 20:12:25 -0000
I spoke about the one remaining issue with -uncertainty yesterday with Ray. That conversation, along with Roger's comments regarding automated location determination helped me realize what I think the source of the disconnect here is. Based on this, I've tentatively concluded that the difference between civic and geodetic location is not what is at the core of the issue, though it's probably true that the issue only manifests with civic location information. Primarily because of our better intuition regarding civic addresses. The core of the concern is that confidence - as a statistical measure - doesn't really make any sort of sense for location information that is a bald assertion, as opposed to locations that are generated by some measurement process (and here I give a nod to Carl for pointing out reverse geocoding as an example of a measurement process that ends with civic location). For example, the assertion "I am at home" is verifiable and basically either correct or not, usually the former. It's only when taken in a larger context that terms like "confidence" even apply. In particular, that means automated location determination. I've taken a stab at clarifying this in the draft. I've also permitted 100% confidence in the schema. At the same time, I've retained the text describing this as impossible, but that text is all in the context of the statistical work, so I hope that the introductory material makes that clear enough. The changes are here: https://github.com/martinthomson/drafts/commit/c2207408af95de74d1f4bb7d790965d69d4b3045 A readable copy is here: http://martinthomson.github.io/drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-uncertainty.html Happy as always to take suggestions. I'd like to think that this helps address Marc's concern without needing to cut Section 3.3 entirely.
- [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Martin Thomson
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Henning G Schulzrinne
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Roger Marshall
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Rosen, Brian
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Martin Thomson
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Marc Linsner (mlinsner)
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Rosen, Brian
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Ray Bellis
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Marc Linsner (mlinsner)
- Re: [Geopriv] Proposal for uncertainty Martin Thomson