Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-ietf-geojson-00-01: (with BLOCK)
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Thu, 03 September 2015 12:31 UTC
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To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
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From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Cc: geopriv@ietf.org, dispatch@ietf.org, Erik Wilde <dret@berkeley.edu>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-ietf-geojson-00-01: (with BLOCK)
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Hiya, On 03/09/15 13:23, Alissa Cooper wrote: > Hi Stephen, > >> On Sep 3, 2015, at 4:15 AM, Stephen Farrell >> <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: >> >> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for >> charter-ietf-geojson-00-01: Block >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to >> all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to >> cut this introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found >> here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-geojson/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> BLOCK: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> This seems like a fine thing to do, but I have one >> concern I'd like to chat about before we go ahead. >> >> I could buy the "no privacy issues here" argument except for the >> last sentence which says: "As the WG considers extensibility it >> will be careful not to preclude extensions that would allow GeoJSON >> objects to become location objects unless the group determines >> such extensibility would be harmful." Aside from being hard to >> parse, that seems to mean that some extensions could mean this >> format does become a RFC6280 Location object, which would then >> bring in the privacy and security issues, previously argued to be >> out of scope. > > Maybe this is a verb tense problem, but I think the points of the > entire paragraph in question are: > > 1) the format the group intends to create is for representation of > things that are not location objects 2) even so, depending on how the > format is specified, it may be possible for them to get used in ways > in which they become location objects, in which case the privacy and > security considerations kick in 3) in defining how to make the format > extensible, the group does not want to preclude (2) in the future, > but 4) the group will not be defining specific extensions to achieve > (2). > > Here is a re-phrase that tries to capture this better: > > The WG will be careful to craft its extensibility mechanism such that > extensions that would allow GeoJSON objects to become location > objects are not precluded, but will not be defining such extensions > itself. Should such an extension be needed, re-chartering will be > required. > > Is that better? Yes. Definitely clearer. However, the "not precluded" is a bit troubling still. Let me try get to it this way - in the following timeline who/when would address the security/privacy issues and how'd we be confident that'd really happen? t1: This WG does it's planned stuff. t2: The foo-protocol uses geojson in a PDU (and the bar protocol etc.) The foo-wg doesn't consider security/privacy as geojson doesn't create location objects t3: This WG defines how to annotate a location with an identity thus creating location objects Ta, S. > > Alissa > >> I think that's a contradiction. As it happens, I also think that, >> despite folks best efforts, RFC6280 isn't an architecture that >> worked out that well, so I'd not suggest that this wG try emulate >> that with square brackets. Instead, I'd suggest that this WG be >> chartered to never take on work with does have security or privacy >> consequences (without a re-charter). >> >> That'd maybe mean a change in the last sentence such as: >> >> OLD: >> >> As the WG considers extensibility it will be careful not to >> preclude extensions that would allow GeoJSON objects to become >> location objects unless the group determines such extensibility >> would be harmful. >> >> NEW: >> >> In order to continue to validly avoid having to deal with the >> security and privacy issues that would arise, this WG will not >> define any extensions that would have the effect of making a >> geojson object an RFC6280 location object or location information >> as defined by RFC3693. Should such an extension be needed, >> re-chartering will be required. >> >> My propsed NEW text is very clunky so probably needs improving. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing >> list Geopriv@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv >
- [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-ietf… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Carl Reed
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Robin Wilton
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Geopriv] Stephen Farrell's Block on charter-… Carl Reed