[grobj] FW: [Fwd: Re: Problem statement] - 5th out of 7
Sheng Jiang <shengjiang@huawei.com> Thu, 28 January 2010 09:33 UTC
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Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:32:10 +0800
From: Sheng Jiang <shengjiang@huawei.com>
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Subject: [grobj] FW: [Fwd: Re: Problem statement] - 5th out of 7
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FYI, there were some private discussion regarding to the new GROBJ problem statement draft. Resend it to the grobj maillist with permission. Wish to light wider discussion. There are 7 emails in this thread. This is 5th out of 7. Regards, Sheng > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheng Jiang [mailto:shengjiang@huawei.com] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 6:16 AM > To: Simon Perreault > Cc: Brian E Carpenter; Dan Wing > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [grobj] Problem statement] > > > > Simon Perreault write: > > Sheng, > > > > Thanks for your comments. I reply inline below. > > > > > > Brian, > > > > I just noticed that there is new text in the introduction > mentioning > > ICE and "SuperICE". Thank you for that. I think it is needed to > > understand GROBJ's role. > > > > > > On 01/20/2010 05:08 PM, Sheng Jiang wrote: > >> Can we forget about ALL at the beginning stage? We should focus on > >> necessary information for most cases we count so far and then make > >> the GROBJ extensiable for further use. If we can agree on this, we > >> can sit down discussion what the nessary information is > and in which cases. > > > > Yes. I don't think this change would affect the protocol at > all. It's > > just a mindset change about how to use GROBJ, not what a GROBJ is. > > > >>> I don't understand R3. How can we be sure that such a > Reference item > >>> "can be used to find a path to the referred entry"? In my > >>> understanding, an IP address doesn't fit this requirement > because we > >>> often cannot find a path (or we find the wrong path) for e.g. > >>> RFC1918 addresses. > >> > >> Again, we cannot sure at all. From the view of the > constructor of a > >> GROBJ, it just selects the most useful item from its > pwespective. We > >> make the best efforts, it may not work out at the end. > > > > That's also my understanding. That's why I don't understand R3. ;) > > I guess we all share the same understanding here. The > description may need to reword here. Brian? > > >>> I don't understand why R4 is needed, and I cannot imagine > a protocol > >>> that would pass this test. > >> > >> My understanding for this R4 is that we are going to > define a single > >> universal format. And the discription of its options is > independent > >> from network situations. > > > > I agree with the "universal format" idea, although I would > prefer to > > say that a GROBJ is a "generic" format. The > "generalization" of ICE is > > what interests me. > > > > What puzzles me is why you would want to forward this at > all. Sure the > > forwardee will be able to interpret the content, since it's > a generic > > format, but will he be able to use it as the forwarder could? The > > reachability of the reference items contained in it will > probably be > > different when going from the forwarder to the forwardee. > > en... This is a real good question. I don't have very clear > answer. I have cases in my mind for one hop forwarding. See A > want something from B, then B said, I don't have it, but you > can get it from C. And B forward a GROBJ of C to A. > > I am not sure the above case can be extended to multi hop > forwarding. It become iteration. B tells A, C may know where > to get your content (let's say the really answer is on D). > Then, it is A talk to C directly to know it should talk to D later. > > Unless the GROBJ is distributed with some certain > information, for example, "if you want information of Avatar, > go this GROBJ", there is no motivation/benefit to forward it > more than once. > > > Anyway, I think the idea of R4 would be better captured if > it simply > > said that a GROBJ is a free-standing protocol, embeddable, but not > > necessarily embedded, into another. > > Agree. > > > Side question: will it have a MIME type? > > Will discuss this in reply for Dan's email. > > Sheng >