Re: [GROW] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-grow-bgp-gshut-13

["Susan Hares" <[e-mail]>]

Jay: 

First of all - I'm fine with whatever you decide.   I do not want to delay
the publication process. This is an important specification for operators.  

On just logging, the question is whether GROW wants to suggest to
implementations that there should be implementation knobs for logging.
How/when/where - logging gets set is an implementation detail.    

If Grow wants that, you can add in a 1 sentence during RFC editor process.
This is language is useful for specification to be clear on what knobs the
users expect.  If Grow does not care, then leave it out. 

Logging could eventually use the "push" yang modules - but that's for IDR 's
yang modules.   As to alarms,  agreed.  Not a good idea.

Thanks for the response.  I'm sorry my review was delayed. 
 
Sue Hares

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Borkenhagen [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:36 AM
To: [e-mail]
Cc: Susan Hares; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [GROW] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-grow-bgp-gshut-13

Distro cut *way* down.

Regarding the suggestion for "logging knobs":

- if it's just logging that a gshut action was taken, that's a local
  implementation decision -- no need to mention it in the draft.

- if it's "Possibly raising alarms when something seems wrong", that
  would be a bad idea.  There *will* be instances when traffic remains
  on the link even after the graceful shutdown initiator has signaled
  an approaching shutdown.

To keep things simple and to allow the gshut draft to continue making
progress, I'd prefer to leave it as-is.

Thanks.

						Jay B.


[e-mail] writes:
 > OK,
 > Thanks Susan.
 >
 > --Bruno
 >
 >  > -----Original Message-----
 >  > From: Susan Hares [mailto:[e-mail]]  >  > Sent: Thursday,
January 18, 2018 12:25 PM  >  > To: DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN  >  > Cc:
[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]  >  > Subject: RE: Opsdir last call review of
draft-ietf-grow-bgp-gshut-13  >  >  >  > Bruno:
 >  > 
 >  > I'm sorry I'm this late for the review.   On the editorial nit, if you
think it helps - send it to the RFC
 >  > editor.
 >  >
 >  > On the logging knobs,  you understood my point.  Logs should cover
what is section 4.2.  However,  >  > since the document is in the RFC
editor's queue - it is your choice.  If you get a chance to edit it in -  >
> fine.  If not, those people who implement the gshut will probably put it
in.
 >  >
 >  > Thanks for asking,  Susan Hares
 >  >
 >  > -----Original Message-----
 >  > From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
 >  > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 6:19 AM  >  > To: Susan Hares  >  >
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]  >  > Subject: RE: Opsdir last call review of
draft-ietf-grow-bgp-gshut-13  >  >  >  > Hi Susan,  >  >  >  > Thanks for
your time reviewing this document and you below comments.
 >  >
 >  > Please see my replies inline [Bruno]  >  >  >  > Note that however
fast I'm answering to your review, that document is now in RFC editor queue,
>  > and hence technical changes are much more difficult. (AFAIK, would
require specific approval  >  > from the responsible AD). Thanks for taking
this into account.
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >  > -----Original Message-----
 >  >  > From: Susan Hares [mailto:[e-mail]]  > Sent: Thursday,
January 18, 2018 9:46 AM  >  >  > To: [e-mail]  > Cc: [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail]  >  >  > Subject:
Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-grow-bgp-gshut-13  >  > Reviewer:
Susan Hares  >  >  > Review result: Has Nits  >  > Status: Nits  >  > The
operational procedures described in this  >  > process for the gshut comment
are  > accurately covered, and SHOULD work well.  The  >  > Appendices A-C
add to an  > operations document and should be retained for publication.
 >  >
 >  > [Bruno] ok, thanks.
 >  >
 >  >  > Technical nit:
 >  >  > location of technical nit: (section 4.3)  > The document indicats
that the "BGP implementers  >  > SHOULD provide configuration  > knobs that
utilize teh GRACEFUL_SHUTDOWN community."
 >  >  >
 >  >  > What the problem is:
 >  >  > The document does not say is that their should be error reporting
knobs to  > track the use of  >  > GRACEFUL_SHUTDOWN community.  This can go
in section 4.3 in  > one or two sentences.
 >  >
 >  > [Bruno]
 >  > Could you please elaborate on this? What do you have in mind by "error
reporting knobs"?
 >  > Thinking about this, what I could think of would be logs detailing the
steps in section 4.2. Possibly  >  > raising alarms when something seems
wrong. (e.g. after waiting for BGP convergence, there is still  >  > some
traffic sent/received over the interface(s) related to the EBGP session) Is
this what you were  >  > thinking about?
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >  > Editorial nit:
 >  >  > section 3. paragraph 2, p. 3
 >  >  >
 >  >  > /This is because alternate paths can be hidden by knodes of an AS./
> commment:  The implied  >  > "this" is too vague for a specification.
 >  >  >
 >  >  > Fix:/This lack of path occurs because alternate paths can be hidden
by nodes of  > an AS."/  >  >  >  >  >  > [Bruno]  >  > I agree that your
proposed text makes it more explicit, which is always better in a
specification  >  > (when it's not redundant).
 >  > However, I would note 2 points:
 >  > - section 3 is part of the introduction to the problem space. It
explains the root cause of the  >  > problem. It's not part of the graceful
shutdown specification.
 >  > - The text you are referring to is a paragraph starting with:  "First,
some routers can have no path  >  > toward an affected prefix, and drop
traffic destined to this prefix.  This is because alternate paths  >  > can
be hidden by nodes of an AS."
 >  > Hence "This" refers to the short sentence which is immediately before.
I don't feel that there is  >  > much ambiguity.
 >  >
 >  > That being said, as you classify your comment as an editorial nit, I
could propose to forward it to  >  > the RFC editor, and let the RFC editor
propose a resolution.
 >  > Would this be ok for you?
 >  >
 >  > Thanks,
 >  > Best regards,
 >  > --Bruno
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
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