Re: [hackathon] One Tax API Hackathon proposal

["Noah ." <[e-mail]>]

Hi Benson

If this will get a green light as a hackathon, I would love to participate
and perhaps bring others on board as I foresee the usefulness of such a
project considering how many African governments are currently coming with
random taxes for all sorts of online use cases.

Noah

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 13:04 Benson Muite, <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Dear Eliot and Eric,
>
> Thanks for your feedback. Just announcing on this list as suggested in
> the Hackathon wiki. Clearly, not everyone on this list will participate
> in every project, but feedback is still appreciated.
>
> One particular use case is taxation of cloud services:
>
>
> https://itatonline.org/articles_new/a-closer-look-at-taxation-of-cloud-services-internationally/
>
> Some companies which provide services through the cloud and will be
> affected by such taxes and do have employees who participate in IETF.
> They may want to have some say in how they could easily facilitate
> payment of such taxes in many territories without unnecessary
> administrative burden.
>
> KPMG has a set of articles on e-taxes:
> https://home.kpmg/us/en/home/insights/2019/06/tnf-digital-economy0.html
>
> A recent example is from Cambodia:
>
> https://home.kpmg/us/en/home/insights/2021/09/tnf-cambodia-vat-ecommerce.html
>
> Within the EU, Peppol ( https://github.com/OpenPEPPOL/ ) is one effort
> to harmonize electronic invoicing, whether this will be adopted
> internationally remains to be seen. The scope is much broader than
> proposed here.
>
> As you indicate, a hackathon should have a clear achievable target. As
> indicated in a previous reply for VAT/Sales tax, one needs:
> i) Relevant tax collection bodies
> ii) Identification numbers for the parties involved
> iii) Type of good or service and the relevant taxes to be paid, eg.
> sales tax, income tax
> iv) Some database lookup on the amount of tax to be paid.
>
> The main problems to solve are:
> double registration - registering in one jurisdiction should enable you
> to sell in others and comply with regulations the relevant jurisdictions
> for many products and services
> paperwork reduction - authorized electronic payments and electronic
> identity confirmation can really help here, for example a certain
> jurisdiction has a paperwork reduction act, the main effect of which is
> to indicate how many hours are needed to fill a form, rather than
> milliseconds of allowed time to respond to an electronic request.
>
> Benson
>
> On 9/26/21 11:43 AM, Eliot Lear wrote:
> > EKR,
> >
> > The issue here is more about likelihood of actually accomplishing
> > anything.  Do YOU have a codebase that worries about taxes? Do you plan
> > to add this sort of code into your base?  I don't and I don't know
> > anyone who does.  Do you know of any code base to add this stuff to?  I
> > don't and I don't know anyone who does.
> >
> > If people who DO have such code bases ARE going to show, then the next
> > question is whether anyone who participates in the IETF can reasonably
> > help them.  This isn't a matter of protocol design.  If not, what does
> > the IETF hackathon bring to the table other than... a table (and right
> > now we can't even bring that)?
> >
> > But, Benson, EKR's right:  I can't stand in the way of you doing the
> > work here.  I just think it'll be a waste of your time, and possibly
> > drive you in the wrong direction.
> >
> > Eliot
> >
> > On 25.09.21 18:23, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 2:19 AM Eliot Lear <[e-mail]
> >> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Hi,
> >>
> >>     In general I like a low bar for hackathons, but I am not sure that
> >>     the
> >>     IETF should take this one on.  For one, it's not clear to me that
> >>     this
> >>     isn't more a matter of data models rather than APIs. We also have no
> >>     experience with handling of this sort of information: this is WAY
> >>     up the
> >>     stack.
> >>
> >>
> >> Without taking a position on this proposal, since when do we monitor
> >> what people work on at the hackathon? It's a lot more like a
> >> free-for-all than a BOF and having people work on something at a
> >> hackathon certainly isn't any kind of commitment to take the work on
> >> at the IETF.
> >>
> >>     But if you're going to do this, we need to understand what code is
> >>     going
> >>     to be hacked.  Are the developers from accounting packages going to
> >>     participate?  Can you lay out a bit more of a landscape here?
> >>
> >>
> >> These seem like reasonable questions, but I don't agree with the
> >> framing that we "need" to understand them. If you don't want to
> >> participate without an answer, don't do so, but that shouldn't stop
> >> others from doing it.
> >>
> >> -Ekr
> >>
> >>
> >>     Eliot
> >>
> >>
> >>     On 25.09.21 11:04, Benson Muite wrote:
> >>     > Hi,
> >>     >
> >>     > Have proposed a hackathon topic on One Tax API:
> >>     > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112hackathon
> >>     <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112hackathon>
> >>     > Many countries are proposing taxes on e-commerce and also labor
> >>     > services that are supplied from outside their jurisdictions that
> >>     have
> >>     > been enabled by improvements in internet connectivity. Complying
> >>     with
> >>     > these requirements can be time consuming and is a trade barrier
> for
> >>     > trade in items and services that do not require regulatory
> >>     approval.
> >>     > Having a standardized API for reporting and paying these
> >>     > electronically would enable compliance at a low cost, especially
> >>     since
> >>     > automation could be used.  Privacy and security considerations are
> >>     > also important in creating a standard for such an interface. The
> >>     aim
> >>     > of this hackathon project is to develop a prototype implementation
> >>     > that could become an RFC and be adopted as a standard.
> >>     >
> >>     > Suggestions and contributions are welcome.
> >>     >
> >>     > Regards,
> >>     > Benson
> >>     >
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