Re: [hackathon] One Tax API Hackathon proposal

[Benson Muite <[e-mail]>]

Hi Noah,

Thanks for your interest. Feel free to add yourself as a champion if you 
wish to bring others on board:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112hackathon
Can then discuss further off list.

Note that the EU also has a One Stop Shop which targets payment 
facilitators to collect VAT:
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/vat-e-commerce/oss_en

Regards,
Benson

On 9/26/21 3:58 PM, Noah . wrote:
> Hi Benson
> 
> If this will get a green light as a hackathon, I would love to 
> participate and perhaps bring others on board as I foresee the 
> usefulness of such a project considering how many African governments 
> are currently coming with random taxes for all sorts of online use cases.
> 
> Noah
> 
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 13:04 Benson Muite, <[e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> 
>     Dear Eliot and Eric,
> 
>     Thanks for your feedback. Just announcing on this list as suggested in
>     the Hackathon wiki. Clearly, not everyone on this list will participate
>     in every project, but feedback is still appreciated.
> 
>     One particular use case is taxation of cloud services:
> 
>     https://itatonline.org/articles_new/a-closer-look-at-taxation-of-cloud-services-internationally/
>     <https://itatonline.org/articles_new/a-closer-look-at-taxation-of-cloud-services-internationally/>
> 
>     Some companies which provide services through the cloud and will be
>     affected by such taxes and do have employees who participate in IETF.
>     They may want to have some say in how they could easily facilitate
>     payment of such taxes in many territories without unnecessary
>     administrative burden.
> 
>     KPMG has a set of articles on e-taxes:
>     https://home.kpmg/us/en/home/insights/2019/06/tnf-digital-economy0.html
>     <https://home.kpmg/us/en/home/insights/2019/06/tnf-digital-economy0.html>
> 
>     A recent example is from Cambodia:
>     https://home.kpmg/us/en/home/insights/2021/09/tnf-cambodia-vat-ecommerce.html
>     <https://home.kpmg/us/en/home/insights/2021/09/tnf-cambodia-vat-ecommerce.html>
> 
>     Within the EU, Peppol ( https://github.com/OpenPEPPOL/
>     <https://github.com/OpenPEPPOL/> ) is one effort
>     to harmonize electronic invoicing, whether this will be adopted
>     internationally remains to be seen. The scope is much broader than
>     proposed here.
> 
>     As you indicate, a hackathon should have a clear achievable target. As
>     indicated in a previous reply for VAT/Sales tax, one needs:
>     i) Relevant tax collection bodies
>     ii) Identification numbers for the parties involved
>     iii) Type of good or service and the relevant taxes to be paid, eg.
>     sales tax, income tax
>     iv) Some database lookup on the amount of tax to be paid.
> 
>     The main problems to solve are:
>     double registration - registering in one jurisdiction should enable you
>     to sell in others and comply with regulations the relevant
>     jurisdictions
>     for many products and services
>     paperwork reduction - authorized electronic payments and electronic
>     identity confirmation can really help here, for example a certain
>     jurisdiction has a paperwork reduction act, the main effect of which is
>     to indicate how many hours are needed to fill a form, rather than
>     milliseconds of allowed time to respond to an electronic request.
> 
>     Benson
> 
>     On 9/26/21 11:43 AM, Eliot Lear wrote:
>      > EKR,
>      >
>      > The issue here is more about likelihood of actually accomplishing
>      > anything.  Do YOU have a codebase that worries about taxes? Do
>     you plan
>      > to add this sort of code into your base?  I don't and I don't know
>      > anyone who does.  Do you know of any code base to add this stuff
>     to?  I
>      > don't and I don't know anyone who does.
>      >
>      > If people who DO have such code bases ARE going to show, then the
>     next
>      > question is whether anyone who participates in the IETF can
>     reasonably
>      > help them.  This isn't a matter of protocol design.  If not, what
>     does
>      > the IETF hackathon bring to the table other than... a table (and
>     right
>      > now we can't even bring that)?
>      >
>      > But, Benson, EKR's right:  I can't stand in the way of you doing the
>      > work here.  I just think it'll be a waste of your time, and possibly
>      > drive you in the wrong direction.
>      >
>      > Eliot
>      >
>      > On 25.09.21 18:23, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>      >>
>      >> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 2:19 AM Eliot Lear <[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>      >> <mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>> wrote:
>      >>
>      >>     Hi,
>      >>
>      >>     In general I like a low bar for hackathons, but I am not
>     sure that
>      >>     the
>      >>     IETF should take this one on.  For one, it's not clear to me
>     that
>      >>     this
>      >>     isn't more a matter of data models rather than APIs. We also
>     have no
>      >>     experience with handling of this sort of information: this
>     is WAY
>      >>     up the
>      >>     stack.
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> Without taking a position on this proposal, since when do we
>     monitor
>      >> what people work on at the hackathon? It's a lot more like a
>      >> free-for-all than a BOF and having people work on something at a
>      >> hackathon certainly isn't any kind of commitment to take the
>     work on
>      >> at the IETF.
>      >>
>      >>     But if you're going to do this, we need to understand what
>     code is
>      >>     going
>      >>     to be hacked.  Are the developers from accounting packages
>     going to
>      >>     participate?  Can you lay out a bit more of a landscape here?
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> These seem like reasonable questions, but I don't agree with the
>      >> framing that we "need" to understand them. If you don't want to
>      >> participate without an answer, don't do so, but that shouldn't stop
>      >> others from doing it.
>      >>
>      >> -Ekr
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>     Eliot
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>     On 25.09.21 11:04, Benson Muite wrote:
>      >>     > Hi,
>      >>     >
>      >>     > Have proposed a hackathon topic on One Tax API:
>      >>     > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112hackathon
>     <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112hackathon>
>      >>     <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112hackathon
>     <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/112hackathon>>
>      >>     > Many countries are proposing taxes on e-commerce and also
>     labor
>      >>     > services that are supplied from outside their
>     jurisdictions that
>      >>     have
>      >>     > been enabled by improvements in internet connectivity.
>     Complying
>      >>     with
>      >>     > these requirements can be time consuming and is a trade
>     barrier for
>      >>     > trade in items and services that do not require regulatory
>      >>     approval.
>      >>     > Having a standardized API for reporting and paying these
>      >>     > electronically would enable compliance at a low cost,
>     especially
>      >>     since
>      >>     > automation could be used.  Privacy and security
>     considerations are
>      >>     > also important in creating a standard for such an
>     interface. The
>      >>     aim
>      >>     > of this hackathon project is to develop a prototype
>     implementation
>      >>     > that could become an RFC and be adopted as a standard.
>      >>     >
>      >>     > Suggestions and contributions are welcome.
>      >>     >
>      >>     > Regards,
>      >>     > Benson
>      >>     >
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