Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1
Ben Laurie <ben@algroup.co.uk> Tue, 28 June 2005 16:34 UTC
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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:34:05 +0100
From: Ben Laurie <ben@algroup.co.uk>
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To: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050609152413.078e8ac0@mail.binhost.com> <p06210245bece4ebbbea1@[10.20.30.249]> <20050616081143.GC32581@raktajino.does-not-exist.org> <p0621023abed742623640@[10.20.30.249]> <20050617084345.GJ32581@raktajino.does-not-exist.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050617114209.0640e0d0@mail.binhost.com> <42BFEA9E.6080603@algroup.co.uk> <p06230977bee71c108c83@[10.20.30.249]> <42C172A7.8080807@algroup.co.uk> <p06230979bee7272458a8@[10.20.30.249]>
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Paul Hoffman wrote: > At 4:54 PM +0100 6/28/05, Ben Laurie wrote: >>> Do you have different wording that would help, for example, TLS use >>> these kinds of functions if we define them? >> >> 'Including a random value in the hash function computation. The >> random block used is transferred at appropriate points in the protocol >> (ideally once for each use of the hash function). This approach is >> sometimes called a "salted" or "randomized" hash function.' > > I prefer "value" to "block" in the second sentence, but the rest seems > fine to me. Fair enough - I took that word from the existing wording. > Do others have an opinion on this wording? > >> And now I'm thinking harder about this, we also should say that care >> needs to be taken that the right party chooses the random value (or it >> may be that both (all?) parties should choose it in some cases) - >> since allowing the attacker to choose it would be bad. > > The whole purpose here is to allow the signing party to add randomness > to the message they are signing. It is? Isn't the purpose to try to mitigate _all_ the problems caused by weak hashes? > If the attacker is signing, don't they > already have all the control they need for the collision attacks? Not if the relying party chooses the random value. -- >>>ApacheCon Europe<<< http://www.apachecon.com/ http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff _______________________________________________ Hash mailing list Hash@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hash
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Eric Rescorla
- [Hash] Hash BoF Russ Housley
- [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Paul Hoffman
- RE: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Jim Schaad
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 EKR
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Paul Hoffman
- RE: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Russ Housley
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Russ Housley
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Russ Housley
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 The Purple Streak, Hilarie Orman
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Russ Housley
- RE: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Jim Schaad
- RE: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Russ Housley
- RE: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Ben Laurie
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Russ Housley
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Ben Laurie
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Ben Laurie
- Re: [Hash] Charter discussion, round 1 Eric Rescorla