To: <hipsec@ietf.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.01.1602121354030.16926@hymn03.u.washington.edu>
 <56BF0BEA.4050709@ericsson.com> <56C330B8.8070706@ericsson.com>
From: Miika Komu <miika.komu@ericsson.com>
Organization: Ericsson AB
Message-ID: <57741647.2070807@ericsson.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:41:11 +0300
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hipsec/X23xtusJzn24xbDAjz_XGjBcWx4>
Subject: Re: [Hipsec] WGLC: draft-ietf-hip-native-nat-traversal
Precedence: list

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Hi,

On 02/16/2016 04:22 PM, Ari Ker=E4nen wrote:
> Thank you for the review Tom! Please see below.
>
>> On 12/02/2016 11:54 PM, Tom Henderson wrote:
>>> Gonzalo and all,
>>>
>>> My understanding is that the WG reached consensus several years ago
>>> that the standards-track NAT traversal variant would be the native
>>> NAT traversal and not the RFC5770-based ICE/STUN/TURN version.
>>>
>>> I reviewed the above draft and noticed that it still contains
>>> normative references to RFC5770 (pointers to material found only in
>>> RFC5770) throughout, and contains RFC5770 as a normative reference
>>> in Section 8.1.  It seems to me that the WG ought to produce a
>>> specification that can stand alone from RFC5770, because as it
>>> stands now, it seems to me that someone implementing it would need
>>> to consult both drafts and may be uncertain about what is still
>>> applicable from RFC5770.  For example, is the UDP-ENCAPSULATION
>>> mode still valid?
>
> Indeed this variant is the standards-track solution, but I think it
> makes sense to not obsolete the RFC5770. For example, in some scenario
> the STUN based solution could be better than native HIP based. And also=

> the UDP-ENCAPSULATION mode should be still valid.

the draft does not replace RFC5770, but offers a parallel/independent=20
way to implement NAT traversal. UDP-ENCAPSULATION mode is still valid.

>>> ICE (RFC 5245) is also still listed as normative but it seems to me
>>> that it should also be informative in this draft.
>
> The details of e.g., how ICE checklists are used are defined in RFC5245=

> so I think it needs to be normative.

You're right, and new ICE (rfc5245bis) is now normative.

>>> I think it would be appropriate to just reference 5770 in the
>>> Introduction, stating that this specification replaces RFC 5770
>>> with a different mechanism than ICE/STUN/TURN, and then try to
>>> avoid referencing 5770 from then on.
>
> Avoiding RFC 5770 altogether would require lots of editorial work with
> this draft for a questionable amount of benefit, so I think it's better=

> if we simply have it as normative reference. The maturity level of 5770=

> (experimental) is an issue, but I think it is possible - and makes sens=
e
> - to make an exception here.

The draft has been improved radically from the viewpoint of readability=20
and it is more independent from RFC5770. The old draft is somehow more=20
mature in the sense that it has been implemented and successfully=20
interoperated. However, it is based on the old ICE specification that is =

going to be deprecated this year.


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