IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [homenet] The minimal Babel profile for Homenet

"STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com> Mon, 02 November 2015 20:57 UTC

Return-Path: <bs7652@att.com>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB101B3896 for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 12:57:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.266
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u3Polp4HoTHQ for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 12:57:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A96B1B388F for <homenet@ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 12:57:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0049458.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049458.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id tA2KrYws011002; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:57:47 -0500
Received: from alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp6.sbc.com [144.160.229.23]) by m0049458.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 1xww6507dx-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:57:47 -0500
Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA2Kvk7t024232; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:57:46 -0500
Received: from alpi133.aldc.att.com (alpi133.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.3]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA2KvdTV024126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:57:39 -0500
Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUBAH.ITServices.sbc.com (GAALPA1MSGHUBAH.itservices.sbc.com [130.8.218.157]) by alpi133.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 2 Nov 2015 20:57:26 GMT
Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.188]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAH.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.157]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:57:26 -0500
From: "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [homenet] The minimal Babel profile for Homenet
Thread-Index: AQHREXoprzf8EFwP/kG03XSTEWgCNp6A0lIAgAB8hID//+K20IADkMsAgAR5BbA=
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:57:25 +0000
Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E611424EC842@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com>
References: <87d1vzw5q4.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E611424E4546@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <12832.1446046999@sandelman.ca> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E611424E4FCD@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <15930.1446236730@sandelman.ca>
In-Reply-To: <15930.1446236730@sandelman.ca>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [135.70.91.228]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-RSA-Inspected: yes
X-RSA-Classifications: public
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2015-11-02_12:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1507310000 definitions=main-1511020361
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/0pt2W5q5ePykYUez0g-_nNPrIyw>
Subject: Re: [homenet] The minimal Babel profile for Homenet
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Homenet WG mailing list <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:57:49 -0000

>     > Maybe conditionally mandatory? If the router can be used for routing
> 
> That's what SHOULD is *for*
> If you are concerned it won't get implemented, then any weasel room you
> leave will be exploited.  At that point, the market gets to decide.

<on vacation, so not responding quickly and not in Yokohama>
No, SHOULD and conditionally mandatory are 2 very different types of requirements. When designing a test tool to automate testing of requirements, a tool generally issues a warning when a "SHOULD" is not implemented (correctly). But for conditional mandatory, a tool will test for the condition and then issue a failure if the requirement is not implemented (correctly). But I agree that in IETF, I haven't seen use of conditional mandatory. I think that's unfortunate and I think this is the reason many IETF "SHOULD" requirements aren't implemented when they need to be implemented. 

But I'm not willing to spend more time arguing in this particular case. CE router vendors are a tremendously pragmatic bunch. If it's easy and could cause dissatisfaction with their product if not implemented, they will more than likely do it. This looks pretty easy to me, especially with the availability of a lot of open source code for it.
Barbara

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email