Re: [homenet] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-09.txt

"Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com> Wed, 23 October 2019 21:33 UTC

Return-Path: <evyncke@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70BE1200A4 for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.499
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=GWkCDGE2; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=k6mgNGMl
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A-p2-6V62r9G for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:33:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF2911200EF for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10211; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1571866390; x=1573075990; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=kPjVAlS6aUKBAvBr0P0TdHEANIIRQHdVMMgj5OI8z3w=; b=GWkCDGE2vEt4hU0ln2SVo0BWgPsVjMP/sqHvlIuguNUsh7bhEb925mAo 3/h3gj1UC8CygCeWG4uv+L8O++z9o6Kyr6qkKafi+qsp2W9mORHyXFWn9 o4pstW7E8+3LWbKnmLv8x5oWcy48XNi1lBY6I3t7PhmXUdTkNRrccKzG4 c=;
IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:97UdyhYcHyuTa6Qgatk6Meb/LSx94ef9IxIV55w7irlHbqWk+dH4MVfC4el20gebRp3VvvRDjeee87vtX2AN+96giDgDa9QNMn1NksAKh0olCc+BB1f8KavncT08F8dPfFRk5Hq8d0NSHZW2ag==
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0ARAACxxrBd/4wNJK1lGQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBgWkCAQEBAQELAYEbL1AFbFcgBAsqhCeDRwOKXII5JYlviTOEYYEugSQDVAkBAQEMAQEYAQwIAgEBgUyCdAIXgx0kNgcOAgMJAQEEAQEBAgEFBG2FNwyFUAEBAQEDARERHQEBNwEPAgEIEQMBAigDAgICHwcKFAkIAgQBDQUbB4MAAYF5TQMuAQIMqBoCgTiIYXWBMoJ+AQEFgkmCQw0LghcDBoE2AYwOGIFAP4E4DBOCTD6CG0cBAQOBHVgJDQmCWjKCLI94hTqJM449QQqCJIcOiG2BIIQMG4I7jAKLE4RJiW2IJ4IQjxECBAIEBQIOAQEFgVkFLYFYcBU7KgGCQVAQFIMGOBiDI4UUhT90AYEojyQBAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.68,222,1569283200"; d="scan'208,217";a="363724944"
Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 23 Oct 2019 21:33:09 +0000
Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x9NLX8c5011708 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:33:09 GMT
Received: from xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:33:08 -0500
Received: from xhs-rcd-003.cisco.com (173.37.227.248) by xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:33:07 -0400
Received: from NAM05-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (72.163.14.9) by xhs-rcd-003.cisco.com (173.37.227.248) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:33:07 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=mQj0xtS9RgkRr5GfPohP678qehCGdUjBpL1C1Lzlixo1Bj32Uy39JaJ2TZ6/qby8rHhv3aMXkhhChzP0rCVK81t2rCYVZ8UnQUgWCdPVTDLUEmGg8ovBvy56JfTwr16r1LipaTDvNiqwZmbPnkRRWI8IyKfr3fDYUxI4+HeNCrtO2W+A/v50U0qh+8F7jzaOwcBwpw4M0W7n1zzMMrWRlRMcjP8w+R3ofGs1FPESzYvjwRikXmOBgX5jXP7iwyMOEC8ohg7Xr56m5y8ACFYGvHgDIZEmDCwloN36pPbvOeiNfQG6Rl/c2lWgFv8TF4meuBNqeI1xGMdHzSYcL09X2A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=kPjVAlS6aUKBAvBr0P0TdHEANIIRQHdVMMgj5OI8z3w=; b=aJj5Lqs0xLLz2OGWSKpcGkrBxD5GirKS5jhzt+Eqo5RaUvNrEHGD6gW5e5bSWCFgpn8j59b0J9Gm3me12JIeEOb8anr5Y0K6s/YRcmBzvDeO3u2K8hZQC/s+N5JSD8hRXwCFHHNtFuRNLRmQBXn+z+DZqI3LAbPOUFjW0PuqP8OMjajMEDNCYM7JzSzfONPQuq/uKZvKQ5JtYrIv1VTw9Stshk+LlX87uCVTKyzIGabyyox5gt5OZAR01F5lIQztP1Fg949j4oogcpxOAnL5sg8vdHptHm0FWqHuusOM45mtMLGaUf6FmNfbCQJdu9i3SmycA0SZ5qulC9q9gCtwJg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=kPjVAlS6aUKBAvBr0P0TdHEANIIRQHdVMMgj5OI8z3w=; b=k6mgNGMlspuoEaYI1F4zVoRNPKTA6d8NOfdYW3y/5KY1AAGMLEJcFlPh0HXE0qQuZe7C5mEYEgV4fwlDglKVrJrnVBQwJ4CAzukezbwGsZfF8WohywnPsSveOucP5vS8veU36O7lOcOC8E5jsZjf11kanNHt8pntnql1ujykJbY=
Received: from MN2PR11MB4144.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (20.179.150.210) by MN2PR11MB4350.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.39.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2347.18; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:33:06 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB4144.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e4f8:d335:c018:c62a]) by MN2PR11MB4144.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e4f8:d335:c018:c62a%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2347.029; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:33:05 +0000
From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: "Ray Hunter (v6ops)" <v6ops@globis.net>, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
CC: HOMENET <homenet@ietf.org>, cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Thread-Topic: [homenet] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-09.txt
Thread-Index: AQHViW8if8k0DC41ok27YI+GlwjXPKdn7GIAgAD1L4A=
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:33:05 +0000
Message-ID: <73D77519-902D-4976-BB33-2FDE6946F28E@cisco.com>
References: <CAA93jw7ervnQEEipR_KJDgDpEauzxSabZxg_3jkKgDk4X5AoAA@mail.gmail.com> <deaa63b0-0b41-973a-bf6a-bc5e7fa6078b@globis.net>
In-Reply-To: <deaa63b0-0b41-973a-bf6a-bc5e7fa6078b@globis.net>
Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c0:1005::a2]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 533381af-efd3-442b-cab5-08d758009768
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4350:
x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 2
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MN2PR11MB4350E910096A774FD75F6472A96B0@MN2PR11MB4350.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-forefront-prvs: 019919A9E4
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(376002)(136003)(346002)(39860400002)(366004)(396003)(52314003)(199004)(189003)(51914003)(476003)(81156014)(229853002)(54906003)(8676002)(5660300002)(4326008)(36756003)(46003)(11346002)(58126008)(33656002)(7736002)(316002)(2616005)(8936002)(14454004)(606006)(81166006)(446003)(86362001)(110136005)(76176011)(102836004)(91956017)(6436002)(66946007)(66446008)(256004)(66556008)(64756008)(71200400001)(6506007)(53546011)(6512007)(54896002)(236005)(6306002)(6486002)(25786009)(76116006)(99286004)(478600001)(66476007)(966005)(6246003)(486006)(71190400001)(186003)(2906002)(6116002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:MN2PR11MB4350; H:MN2PR11MB4144.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: XhJn4qFLytPwuMxvjOYbhOqQyW4/uDooC4Y2l8t+JJ7RDzT1dp5OOvF5mT94Nr+MV06/LTlCrkCFS8dCioekWPljcNOj1eWaUWASQeFk3kmWupvxnAlyrsAe2ZDRggp+hFJYH4OvWRThib57Oo3B4xvMBhgFmwn1keWiGV13QRWLlS4iCQbeBpT9blIf8nBYGyrI7Iv9azydzUMd7i6JGLi2itsVVm4G8txHMkDuTuWrXMFZtcdb0JK0SwQJ++py1stT2sVpVGNmt+M9y4dqEvNc1tT6rb2fRhu5uRWaL20aYHF1xIQTMAen1paOC7FVbV0zIoQ/7xjrOaO33JWqI6s1xgNgBd2sae2YQuXKJj3ZDRF9fwKpGvji4lT6cDk/1pVNSmTvhGF2RQaDf4Kh966MW/LWaXE0A74WL+ExGPCjuO3bTdOI4hqJ/vsLl1y7og8ECVT6m287V1z/MBWMiUX7sBA6Tw9EI/Uib3gK1nQ=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_73D77519902D4976BB332FDE6946F28Eciscocom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 533381af-efd3-442b-cab5-08d758009768
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Oct 2019 21:33:05.8836 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: AyAHMgpevhiIwcJhM01ACb0j7yDDWwNbqs6K3T9FeR5VrGQtriov1FUI/jyQEU4n8tYW11SJcdwNtEmBUOuUYQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4350
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/9ODx14UdSlqq3AbdZKKZUAE-Ygc>
Subject: Re: [homenet] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-09.txt
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Homenet WG mailing list <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:33:18 -0000

Ray and Christophe and others,

As the responsible AD for this draft, would you mind forwarding/adding mboned@ietf.org<mailto:mboned@ietf.org> to the recipient list? So that authors can read your valuable comments?

Thank you

-éric



From: homenet <homenet-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Ray Hunter (v6ops)" <v6ops@globis.net>
Date: Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 10:55
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: HOMENET <homenet@ietf.org>, cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [homenet] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-09.txt


Dave Taht wrote on 23/10/2019 08:56:


has anyone here had much chance to review this?


Thanks for the prompt.

>From a pure Homenet perspective, it reinforces that L3 routing is the correct solution for segmenting networks where end nodes have different characteristics. e.g. battery powered or different underlying LAN technology. And maybe we need a firewall in front of those segments to prevent inbound scanning traffic overloading the link.

Other than that I'm not sure it says much more than "Multicast is great for efficiency, until it isn't".

Section 3.2.4:
> On a wired network, there is not a huge difference between unicast, multicast and broadcast traffic.

I'd dispute this statement as being overly generic. Anyway, it doesn't add much to the discussion (about wireless).

The majority of modern wired Ethernets are actually effectively point to point networks, with multicast and broadcast being emulated in silicon or software.

Although maybe having a less visible impact than on wireless, multicast and broadcast can also have some similar operational impact on wired networks (waking nodes unnecessarily, switching via a slow (software) path in the main processor,  https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6583 etc.).

--
regards,
RayH