Re: [homenet] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-09.txt

christophe.lohr@telecom-bretagne.eu Wed, 23 October 2019 09:27 UTC

Return-Path: <christophe.lohr@telecom-bretagne.eu>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4828B1200B4 for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 02:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=telecom-bretagne.eu
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bhUjOEc2JWWg for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 02:27:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zproxy110.enst.fr (zproxy110.enst.fr [137.194.2.192]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 191A712007A for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 02:27:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zproxy110.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A0782362 for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 11:27:41 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from zproxy110.enst.fr ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zproxy110.enst.fr [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Ei9YqRyDXf-e for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 11:27:41 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zproxy110.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8095E82360 for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 11:27:41 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 zproxy110.enst.fr 8095E82360
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telecom-bretagne.eu; s=CFDC2CFA-4654-11E5-AACD-7BCC68B6580D; t=1571822861; bh=M4O9ufRr9AUJLjOkQ1gTObb+4ZBQxq4J2IM3xp9Cz2o=; h=To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version; b=HwG1mbijpQqzH26VlEw8opsl5wsp9acsFgWuQ2LT1J26ftjs3Ny25MEfL78Rhdpls ZdRMw9RT2lRB1mkyqDZGY6kEwSKX4JgeuM7Vfy7Po+JabK5x6WxnMHmgbYlwuXPmCZ PaqcVhH9QMSlew9/0TpDsIGJ2TxtoDFMnXFSF1O4=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zproxy110.enst.fr
Received: from zproxy110.enst.fr ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zproxy110.enst.fr [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id rtLbDmRDSnrW for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 11:27:41 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7302:5:ba85:84ff:feb0:351a] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7302:5:ba85:84ff:feb0:351a]) by zproxy110.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5116282362 for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 11:27:41 +0200 (CEST)
To: homenet@ietf.org
References: <CAA93jw7ervnQEEipR_KJDgDpEauzxSabZxg_3jkKgDk4X5AoAA@mail.gmail.com>
From: christophe.lohr@telecom-bretagne.eu
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=christophe.lohr@telecom-bretagne.eu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFidiI4BEAC/zpewWjK9zQSDxb5ue3RvpVE3GJJZHZtCTnUpUnlMs2cKE5ZFwgYnMGr6 hFZFubcZcg2iTWCAcGcaqGHufFlv1+T/zw6tN0XUEnJRDAdqPeefjrRzf264efp/2kfftJkU rWS7cPPOYjSbsB+TMjDL13+lGAh3wceo8kXrCRSEKnzCGKcwrgNNIWwISqD/+1/2rppCEE55 Mx7Gh/NtLDhrhrlSJe5UhRa5PHG17FyFwnpP+Mplqy5AGjt2cEdooQBqOJR8k0UksYmSw2uU 2zP779xr9Jh9zjwZxXFia6Q7ZmOMnMjMWG225iVPphye5TS1s/1LTOXZYUWFY8RCuVxR2YHg C0qsd5lC0Hei/WODt0Lx0T4DgHXEe6zqg1X4PKCqWW7DaPUMy1v1yfu8K1T7ySUSxNan8XuA om15iYqJHjHLBuMxq3TKAOoHaWecdP7tAK58WVncsWb4vQZGweSQRsr/CBgRmsZM4UcT0Kkr t0rOAfpW9t4vz3dqn80MwRu9UGVnc2fLgC0Ml+ymsBFnDZjYTg/4vAas7E9V2E7uVfOXB9Mr PwB4u3+VdKgI2qRYEUUbvmrw9sYX/we4eh3qUtXcSXuvhu4ukDrjFKMGgZXccgXbsevzi24o j3IopUdrY0OrsMXhqHlMwrw4iq5aZujxP0T1CzVW6qAIZD9HewARAQABtEJDaHJpc3RvcGhl IExvaHIgKFdvcmsgYWRkcmVzcykgPGNocmlzdG9waGUubG9ockBpbXQtYXRsYW50aXF1ZS5m cj6JAk4EEwEIADgWIQRBlpOqI8ZwLZqLQzc/4GWuK29VCgUCWJ2IjgIbAwULCQgHAgYVCAkK CwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRA/4GWuK29VCnAaD/wIwRul4rfN5g9PPX5o89JtXKJHbdl/Ql8W +td240unsleBaJkqZTcnARmk+enYB5d54taM6e+Sodsjskt1P4mwX1AVR2/F/woeqEZxMMKQ xAQHFP+IInYsJHFw8qYO33Dc+Xlf6FGXMHGsPDoPbpWIZLMJbh20K9VeeEMuOBuTGnZHJhDy SyBnkgF3z4m37VVZKIC4CMbpswEqSPrI+U7Bmcr4LseqRN/6P3ivAHvF3hTy2cpAvLfbBQSm E91CdRzzZ5rvYnk3SsiBZ75IelYmaCqpDSPuzJSMAePiI3SvdoVWl4Hl81y0lGfFeMkx+xxk 01YJUFAjIllOW0xVueODuXT70XI+xkds1QIuSG8IO/AaDk7zrB+5LpPTF+vrdd07yTyk6gUD ZJqWI56Nhvkq+ORskWnPDOHy6Zd1Ov4ke3bVxuGn0Y/Vzkdp7U2SqJEb82OkGAWw4IS9NbWm IlKKxsGJSsnlq7HxX0m/5+DTHnlCjdI/iyXxUOwp15Wc7M7xOwg+34ME1uUJ9lOsqxVUopYG e2rbJK+LNzRUHx+aDSE3LYSEd481h6lelqJ9bE1Dri2Um/YHZK8DoVvrMV7+FdfjX75ooaV+ XDa4rc6M0lIz20yPBB2kWC2qAObelRNK28pUWMfc4fS238pIjYqlhassImksSEVWq52ypryi l7kCDQRYnYiOARAAwdGm1tsrDtx8nn5ykcld8fYM4LRPRrwekDi7GYuJZq2rQvVccMpmb9v8 nlloYEDAf7nnqlH7nHEmZP+j6w0oxkUp/leKGeGddEiLsKY+BcmgricktNxdsoIryDLpmI+j qjGw5UtEBDO8+iBDi+Nu78SSa9UKEfxw+KUhPWWUiHSKEO4+wov0B5dswTtVGACtbjwTFVVr LHCXP0O4nmlRgh89y7rEFIReOMLQUxzHttMsEe7qlZuX49jYtAabAaFmmh96BoepQY1Gq1+M ShD9PTUb2dKpNBwWbM94gHIkYYHcChPsAbj1D3Xgxx2U+55+49zUClJ6AXxNZQGtPvhYsYm+ Fde2REQh7zcefjTq2FvXIXyUiRyYL2nR3oQTzdsuoY81zBokETt7hVeRa/vHblLIx25mFrqF ccjKvE4NmMzYTh7oUJWPWGB/o6WxGlDG01hz6Kv+fCxRReW1nbMOxe7FjCTTuzxF9Y9pueE8 MOKMTXR1Z1dnznOyTfqkKEYKejPpD3nZPhNUrnxkiccjKI1RRyWqz9mXCZWw/NdWOscGorNL +KAyFpNRFXelgIsPcmSBrZq3Z6+QBYEgm92qo5/dnvf/vwZBXdeiNuhkz0iyDiFsMWIyiJ/b bZBmbnNTbSHmbS0ObbuO3duWCs/m3wKiDjACAdG7HXNsFFL2L1sAEQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIBYh BEGWk6ojxnAtmotDNz/gZa4rb1UKBQJYnYiOAhsMAAoJED/gZa4rb1UKpO4P/RqIjeePf4o9 rcT93UfSPgg+dlJjv1OgCYkURrXHB80h3PKEO9YDCcW6b0Zmzr048eNNGk54d5pflqZClIte IjgV6OcsGrSydickN9rRmXhRbwqcEhLasjJaSyIFwxmadc7aBuiFSJyuvHU4OPBZIx3eArb5 e+vNeNkP14p0yrWUeQ608xn8WgReDyIxwmnMkxoZkwlj9O2+zCyyLo6jKtVCfn4LZpwcwUP9 awQeQqU7WYckzm4fO+2JxmZ0zhIjia3ROdrw00H3V8KbDWcKTL7IWDqoLF/afDRQTMkrDmmY LF6Pgk5Lg/uUo3CBv8EzJXscZ2w6Ttzv0o5lECHMpQvmeitW56/rfQMIZTXhOxrhzi5jXWRz t0M54F9PVmyOX9a5qrlyU28mi1Mgs+uvmjXMFEwg+h8lCrayeOR1nwPMr4FgoHsHU6JyUVxv pIgBF5Q8HpPZuQUEaEz5Bl3uEI3ofI616dCmh42GCHOFvc8bIORwLYaNTs0zGEc4bLVe9cGf i7uJTfshDnL4aKGLbNebV7mUJ1TNEQ8Syx5fWpt/92XECtE9ovSQHCXabTNzGb63Z5HtqOUA TTNmm76rXBSrlvtPv548cMXw4dejA09u1tCFNEyuHzOgT2ZJzEkUY96iNf5ZC+qyOcttgQWV ejdE1EpSVxnHMn0oG8z+dXZZ
Message-ID: <ed3b2fd5-1658-b6e3-cf08-01706eaa389b@imt-atlantique.fr>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 11:27:40 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw7ervnQEEipR_KJDgDpEauzxSabZxg_3jkKgDk4X5AoAA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/Epf7QnQK7mJ9LYXd_tWBUxV1Zpc>
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 04:33:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [homenet] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-09.txt
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Homenet WG mailing list <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 09:50:30 -0000

Hi,
  I have a couple of naive questions

* Section 3.1.1 «Since typically there are no ACKs for multicast packets...»

Does anyone remember why WiFi had chosen not to acknowledge 
multicast/broadcast packets?
This choice was certainly made on the basis of assumptions. Which ones?
Are these assumptions still valid?


* Section 3.1.4 «Multicast traffic is delayed in a wireless network if
any of the STAs in that network are power savers.  All STAs associated
to the AP have to be awake at a known time to receive multicast traffic.»

Why? Why does everyone have to be awake at the same time? APs have
buffers, isn't?  So, why not delivering immediately multicast packets to
awaked STAs (which have to acknowledge them), and keep packets in
buffers for sleeping STAs?

I would be surprised if such a naive process have not been studied when
WiFi was designed. Does anyone remember why this was not selected?


* Is there any standard or well-known test to measure the quality of an
AP regarding its ability to manage multicast traffic?


* The paper is about multicast on wireless links, but what's about
PowerLine Adapters?


Best regards,
Christophe