Re: [homenet] DNCP/HNCP Revisited

Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> Sun, 22 September 2019 12:10 UTC

Return-Path: <jch@irif.fr>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6291200C3 for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 05:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W9NMnl-oljks for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 05:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CB4012003E for <homenet@ietf.org>; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 05:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id x8MCAcKP031021; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:10:38 +0200
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C15567E6F; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:10:41 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id iIq_aAOeE7uQ; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:10:40 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAAAF67E6D; Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:10:39 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:10:39 +0200
Message-ID: <874l14v8e8.wl-jch@irif.fr>
From: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
To: "Ray Hunter (v6ops)" <v6ops@globis.net>
Cc: HOMENET <homenet@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <c19c8ae9-9b11-a004-39d6-4f6c0130267e@globis.net>
References: <87woe3vqbj.wl-jch@irif.fr> <be600313-ed7b-40d5-b44a-92b38f9ada8c@email.android.com> <874l17p7x5.wl-jch@irif.fr> <27d90625-1a38-3738-d4ce-66bc3ed839b3@globis.net> <87woe3nokx.wl-jch@irif.fr> <c19c8ae9-9b11-a004-39d6-4f6c0130267e@globis.net>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:10:38 +0200 (CEST)
X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 5D8764BE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)!
X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 5D8764BE.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/<jch@irif.fr>
X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 5D8764BE.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000
X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/FNuM3p2340x6vCZQ7hVC6bg8Xqk>
Subject: Re: [homenet] DNCP/HNCP Revisited
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Homenet WG mailing list <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 12:10:47 -0000

> AFAICS there's certainly enough room for me to experiment with patches to
> i) reduce MTU to avoid problems arising from L2 MTU mismatches and
> ii) to reduce the amount of fragments (at the expense of more UDP packets)
> without any tweaking of the standards.

In case you're interested, here's the code that decides whether to
aggregate or to ship out in shncpd:

  https://github.com/jech/shncpd/blob/master/send.c#L99

In short -- we try to limit our payload to 1412 bytes whenever possible,
within the constraints of not being able to fragment large TLVs.  (This
should depend on the outgoing interface's MTU, as in Babel, but I decided
I'm lazy and just hardwired the constant.)

> My reason for investigating ii) is to potentially reduce the impact of
> the loss of an individual frame on a lossy link (we would lose 1 node
> status TLV from 1 device rather than multiple TLV's related to multiple
> devices).

Recall, however, that 802.11 has absolutely horrific per-frame overhead.
Recall further that HNCP does flooding, so that if there are parallel
lossy and lossless links, packet loss on the lossy link doesn't matter as
long as the data gets correctly flooded over the lossless link.

In short, there is a non-trivial tradeoff here.

-- Juliusz