Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping devices...
"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Mon, 07 October 2019 14:58 UTC
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>, "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping devices...
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Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2019 14:58:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping devices...
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Hello Michael The order of order of 10^6 (hopefully 10^7) are the total deployed not a single mesh. This makes RPL quite a well-deployed protocol. As you indicate, a single mesh can approach 10^4. A depth can be al lot more than the 10 hops that we imagined initially. Yet it keeps working. Cheers, Pascal -----Original Message----- From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Michael Richardson Sent: lundi 7 octobre 2019 16:41 To: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>; homenet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping devices... Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote: >> Too bad then... I still fail to see why the model cannot be >> generalized to more powerful nodes. > Because it is maximally complex? :] > You say that RPL has scaled to millions of nodes. Where is this > deployed in production? What are the leaf nodes doing? With what > are they communicating? Diagram to help: A B | | +----+-------+-------+----+ <-network 1 | | | C D E | | | +-+-+(2) +-+-+(3) +-+-+(4) | | | | | | F G H I J K 1) the deployments I'm aware of involve many thousands (4-zeros) of electricity meters (Automatic Metering Infrastructure) (sometimes including gas or water meters as leaves). I'm *unaware* of any LLNs that have 10^6 nodes in a single LLN. Unfortunately Pascal can't tell you who, because of NDAs he has with his customers. I've been shown evidence with stuff blacked out/redacted. 2) the leaf nodes are sending readings up on a MP2P topology. There isn't much cross-traffic. So in a homenet context, this is equivalent to there being 30 routers in the home, and no PCs/laptops/etc, rather than 3 routers with 10 desktops each. In the homenet situation, cross-traffic would be traffic that somehow goes from network 2(F) to network 4(K) without going across network 1. In an LLN there might be other paths across the radio links that would permit F<->K traffic without using network 1, and P2PRPL is a protocol that could find it. 3) the leaf nodes in AMI talk to HQ only. There are lighting LLNs that are all cross-traffic though. Some other things to note: a) RPL is not particularly self-configuring, and probably has more parameters to tweak than other protocols, but getting it exactly right only really matters when you have to worry about bandwidth and energy. b) to date, RPL hasn't had a lot of "Internet Standard"-style interop validation. All of the deployments I'm aware of are single-vendor, or involve one or two vendors working closely together. This is sad. c) While RPL has a single root to which all traffic flows, in the diagram, both A and B would announce their own DODAG in a DODOG Information Object (DIO), and the DIO would include Prefix Information Object, which is the equivalent of an RA. Routes in the network are usually /128 routes, but if one used DHCPv6-PD or HNCP to get a /64, one could announce that equally well. Announcing exclusively /128s (with L=0, so offlink) does do nice things for wifi and mobility. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [
- [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping device… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ole Troan
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Timothy Winters
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ole Troan
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ole Troan
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ole Troan
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Mark Smith
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ole Troan
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… RayH
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… RayH
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… RayH
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Support for RFC 7084 on shipping de… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)