Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a MUST !?
Gert Doering <gert@space.net> Wed, 15 October 2014 15:58 UTC
Return-Path: <gert@Space.Net>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 793C81A887D for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.216
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.216 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, GB_I_LETTER=-2, PLING_QUERY=0.994, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J6xxkoKEDoh3 for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:58:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:81::67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 863FF1A8885 for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: homenet@ietf.org
Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC56608AC for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:58:27 +0200 (CEST)
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
Received: from moebius3.space.net (moebius3.Space.Net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::250]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03446602B3 for <homenet@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:58:27 +0200 (CEST)
Received: (qmail 83443 invoked by uid 1007); 15 Oct 2014 17:58:26 +0200
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 17:58:26 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Philip Homburg <pch-homenet-1a@u-1.phicoh.com>
Message-ID: <20141015155826.GZ31092@Space.Net>
References: <CAAedzxp1R-C5E9RJVMVLRJxPc0w4zooPtqnvWK9eggpZu4=xtg@mail.gmail.com> <C7F3DE60-F596-4BAD-9C28-74006966E5B9@fugue.com> <20141014142746.GX31092@Space.Net> <69B1F2CB-88C6-4211-83F3-11C8A3E7BFD2@fugue.com> <20141014145930.GY31092@Space.Net> <m1Xe3jL-0000I7C@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <20141014154111.GZ31092@Space.Net> <m1Xe4mv-0000BzC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <20141015145843.GV31092@Space.Net> <m1XeQn2-0000I3C@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vXro1L/x2znvSlmN"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <m1XeQn2-0000I3C@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
X-NCC-RegID: de.space
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/d3eAodgkGUc9nKvrmaSStZ5bTTM
Cc: HOMENET Working Group <homenet@ietf.org>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Subject: Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a MUST !?
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:58:31 -0000
Hi, On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 05:47:02PM +0200, Philip Homburg wrote: > In your letter dated Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:58:43 +0200 you wrote: > >Please understand that there are way more non-geeks out there that have > >no interest in computers except "use them" than there are geeks who care > >about IP addressing. *Our* job is to make it work for *them*, without > >forcing our world view on them ("they need to be able to put a static > >IP address in DNS!" - no, my mom doesn't need to do that) > > Our current 'world view' is that companies get stable addresses. Consumers get > crap. Well, "we" are not calling it "crap", we call it "make it work and scale", but otherwise, I agree that there is a difference between "large companies" and "SOHO companies and end users" (the homenet approach works perfectly well for a typical SOHO network - a few PCs, a printer, some file storage, mail server hosted "as a service with filtering" elsewhere, etc.) - and that's the numbers of each. > We invent complicated stuff like dynamically turning ULA on and off that nobody > else uses. We force renumbering in the name of privacy, etc. Thing is, we invented DNS, so people do not have to rely on fixed addresses in their /etc/hosts. Then people invented mDNS so inside the home, nobody would have to understand how to handle a DNS zone. So you think DNS and mDNS should have never done either, because it paves the way down the hill? Unless you can come up with a routing architecture that can handle stable end users addresses (as in "whatever the customer does, wherever he moves his ISP connection to, and how many ISPs he's going to have") for all the end users out there, your world view is not actually very helpful. DNS, mDNS, SIP register, and such stuff exist that nobody has to rely on IP addresses never changing, and that people can focus on useful labels instead (like, "hostnames" or "telephone numbers", which in itself are only useful because phone books exist to map a name to a number and traditional phones could not call names). Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
- [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a MUST … Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Erik Kline
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Jouni
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Philip Homburg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… JF Tremblay
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Philip Homburg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Dave Taht
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Dave Taht
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Philip Homburg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ralph Droms
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- [homenet] On renumbering [was: Let's make in-home… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] On renumbering [was: Let's make in-… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ralph Droms
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Don Sturek
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Don Sturek
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Don Sturek
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter