Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a MUST !?
Gert Doering <gert@space.net> Tue, 14 October 2014 15:46 UTC
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:46:06 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Message-ID: <20141014154606.GA31092@Space.Net>
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Cc: Erik Kline <ek@google.com>, HOMENET Working Group <homenet@ietf.org>, Pierre Pfister <pierre.pfister@darou.fr>, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Subject: Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a MUST !?
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Hi, On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 10:13:34AM -0500, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Oct 14, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote: > >> Indeed. The question is, should we increase the number of instances in which they are forced to handle it, or no? > > > > Because this is the only way that application developers will learn to > > handle it. > > Application developers _can't_ handle it. Applications have no control over routing, and making applications do source address selection is a really bad idea. Application developers MUST handle changing addresses, for example by not doing silly things like "at startup, do some DNS resolving and socket binding to a fixed address, and assume that the addresses you receive are not changing". I haven't even mentioned source address selection, as that doesn't come into play for a singlehomed homenet - but as soon as the homenet gets multihomed, applications would benefit a LOT from doing intelligent source address selection. Like in presenting users a selection menu "use ISP? -> SpaceNet, HE.NET, don't care" and picking the appropriate source address. Yes, there's quite a bit of specifications missing to be able to do that (like, how do I find a label to stick onto an address I find on my interface), but for a *homenet*, this is the way it needs to be - nobody will fiddle with the router to do "http goes to SpaceNet, bittorrent goes to HE.NET", but if the application can do it, it greatly empowers users. > I haven't encountered any ISPs that do flash renumbering, and I'm > surprised to hear you saying that T-Online is doing it: that's not > my understanding. In general, providers that renumber their > customers use graceful renumbering, not flash renumbering. There's > no reason to do flash renumbering. In the end, at some point in time, the old prefix goes away, however you phase it. So if the application stubbornly clings to it, it will stop working. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
- [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a MUST … Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Erik Kline
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Jouni
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Philip Homburg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… JF Tremblay
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Philip Homburg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Dave Taht
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Dave Taht
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Philip Homburg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Gert Doering
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ralph Droms
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- [homenet] On renumbering [was: Let's make in-home… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Thomas
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] On renumbering [was: Let's make in-… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ralph Droms
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Sander Steffann
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Don Sturek
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Don Sturek
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Don Sturek
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Pierre Pfister
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Michael Richardson
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… James Woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] Let's make in-home ULA presence a M… Brian E Carpenter