Re: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) Research Group

Tim Wicinski <tjw.ietf@gmail.com> Sat, 28 November 2015 10:04 UTC

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From: Tim Wicinski <tjw.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) Research Group
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I like Brian's charter, but Aaron's suggestions on being vague actually 
allows for flexibility down the road.

Is the output from the WG Internet Drafts or something else?

tim


On 11/27/15 11:19 AM, Aaron Falk wrote:
> Hi Joachim-
>
> Good points but I would suggest the charter stay fairly vague on the
> subjects other than allowing them to be in-scope for the RG, for exactly
> the reason you suggest (it can be a distraction).  Perhaps just adding
> "and best practices" to the end of the first bullet would open the door
> without becoming an attractive nuisance. [*]
>
> --aaron
>
> * - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Joachim Fabini
> <Joachim.Fabini@tuwien.ac.at <mailto:Joachim.Fabini@tuwien.ac.at>> wrote:
>
>     -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>     Hash: SHA1
>
>     Hi Brian,
>
>     I support the charter, thanks for revising it, and full consent to
>     Ethan's statement: "landing pad" for the IMC community reads
>     excellent, nice wording.
>
>     One question (perhaps a minor rewording can help): is "collaborations
>     to share data supporting these measurements" equivalent to "defining
>     repositories and sharing meaningful methods, measurement results,
>     measurement context and limitations of data sets" as discussed in
>     Yokohama? It's not clear to me what "supporting these measurements"
>     refers to exactly. It could mean "sharing of successful measurement
>     methods and setups" rather than "sharing of measurement results".
>
>     Second, is it needed|meaningful to explicitly mention legal aspects
>     related to data sharing as within/outside of the MAP charter? Sharing
>     data means dealing with country-specifics, licensing terms, privacy
>     vs. usability, etc. As such, legal aspects are implicitly part of the
>     charter. My feeling is that MAP should propose guidelines for sharing
>     measurement data, and that such guidelines could be really helpful for
>     the community. However, the discussion on the ietf94-attendees mailing
>     list is a fair warning to be _very_ careful with discussions on any
>     legal aspects (in particular privacy). There's a high risk to lose
>     focus - perhaps we can delegate this subtask to the hrpc RG. ;)
>
>     many thanks,
>     Joachim
>
>
>
>     On 26.11.2015 12:35, Brian Trammell wrote:
>      > Greetings, all,
>      >
>      > Following discussions at the HOPS proposed RG meetings in Prague
>      > and Yokohama, as well as at the RAIM workshop before Yokohama,
>      > we've revised the charter to reflect what we think the community
>      > wants out of such an RG. Note that given the slightly expanded
>      > scope of this charter, though, we've decided to rename the proposed
>      > RG to Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP).
>      >
>      >
>      > Comments on the proposed charter below are welcome at
>      > hops@ietf.org <mailto:hops@ietf.org>:
>      >
>      >
>      > Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) RG
>      > ===============================================
>      >
>      > Our Internet has grown into something that differs from what was
>      > envisioned. Its protocols sometimes operate in an environment other
>      > than than that for which they were designed. For instance, some
>      > network elements treat some protocols differently than others and
>      > those protocols themselves are sometimes reused and abused in ways
>      > initially unforseen. The Measurement and Analysis for Protocols
>      > (MAP) Research Group (RG) explores such phenomena by measurement
>      > with the aim to inform protocol engineering and practice.
>      >
>      > Many protocol engineering efforts in a standards development
>      > context, as well as best practices for the operation of
>      > IETF-defined protocols, can benefit from insight provided by
>      > Internet measurements of various kinds. Likewise, Internet
>      > measurement research efforts can stand to gain from contacts with
>      > the IETF. The Measurement and Analysis for Protocol Engineering
>      > (MAP) Research Group aims to provide a forum for interchange
>      > between these two communities, supporting:
>      >
>      > - exchange of measurement-derived insight, - discussion of
>      > techniques for measurement relevant for protocol engineering and
>      > network operations, - collaborations to share data supporting these
>      > measurements, and - a "landing pad" in general for the Internet
>      > measurement community to introduce its efforts to the IETF
>      >
>      > Measurements of any layer of the Internet protocol stack or aspect
>      > of Internet operations are in-scope for the RG, provided they are
>      > relevant to protocol engineering work within the IETF, or the
>      > operation of IETF protocols.
>      >
>      > Membership ----------
>      >
>      > Membership in the MAP RG is open to all interested parties.
>      >
>      > Meetings --------
>      >
>      > The MAP RG will meet one to three times per year, as deemed
>      > necessary by the chairs and according to demand. At least one MAP
>      > RG meeting will be co-located with an IETF meeting per year. Given
>      > the MAP RG's charter to bridge the gap between Internet standards
>      > and measurement communities, the MAP RG may also meet colocated
>      > with relevant academic conferences or network operator forums, as
>      > appopriate.
>      >
>      > Meetings are by default open with open attendance and published
>      > proceedings, with remote participation and recording as provided by
>      > the meeting venue, according to the IRTF's IPR policy. This is
>      > always the case with at least one MAP RG meeting co-located with an
>      > IETF meeting noted above. However, as deemed necessary, the chairs
>      > may hold virtual or physical meetings with restricted attendance to
>      > discuss observations which cannot be shared openly, provided that
>      > some outcome of such a meeting may be openly shared with the
>      > community.
>      >
>      > Chairs ------
>      >
>      > Mirja K├╝hlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch
>     <mailto:mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>> Dave Plonka
>      > <plonka@akamai.com <mailto:plonka@akamai.com>>
>      >
>      >
>      > Many thanks,
>      >
>      > Brian
>      >
>      >
>      >
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