Re: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) Research Group

Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu> Fri, 27 November 2015 18:29 UTC

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From: Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu>
To: Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>, "hops@ietf.org" <hops@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) Research Group
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 18:29:49 +0000
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Subject: Re: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) Research Group
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Hi Brian and all,

first off, I welcome everyone who wants to do work in the IRTF.

With the very general scope as it is described now, I wonder a bit how this relates to the IRTF's objective of " creating focused, long-term Research Groups working on topics related to Internet protocols, applications, architecture and technology."

Measurements, in my view, are a tool for networking research and development, and in fact most of us are doing measurements in different forms for validating assumptions, assessing performance etc. Research groups such as ICCRG are often discussing measurement results.

So in that sense, it's a meta topic that is daily business for IRTF RGs. I am fully aware of the fact that measurement methodology is itself a research topic, but it's not quite clear to me what we want to achieve.

- are we trying to do/promote constructive work towards advancing Internet measurement tools and infrastructure?
- are we planning to discuss middlebox issues?
- do we want offer discussion platform for general measurement topics?

I am bit skeptical with respect to creating an RG for general measurement discussions. There are existing conferences and workshops that are doing that already. Also, it's unclear how that would contribute to the IRTF objectives.

Please enlighten me. :-)

Dirk





> -----Original Message-----
> From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Trammell
> Sent: Donnerstag, 26. November 2015 12:35
> To: hops@ietf.org
> Subject: [hops] Proposed Charter for Measurement and Analysis for Protocols
> (MAP) Research Group
> 
> Greetings, all,
> 
> Following discussions at the HOPS proposed RG meetings in Prague and
> Yokohama, as well as at the RAIM workshop before Yokohama, we've revised
> the charter to reflect what we think the community wants out of such an RG.
> Note that given the slightly expanded scope of this charter, though, we've
> decided to rename the proposed RG to Measurement and Analysis for Protocols
> (MAP).
> 
> 
> Comments on the proposed charter below are welcome at hops@ietf.org:
> 
> 
> Measurement and Analysis for Protocols (MAP) RG
> ===============================================
> 
> Our Internet has grown into something that differs from what was envisioned.
> Its protocols sometimes operate in an environment other than than that for
> which they were designed. For instance, some network elements treat some
> protocols differently than others and those protocols themselves are sometimes
> reused and abused in ways initially unforseen. The Measurement and Analysis
> for Protocols (MAP) Research Group (RG) explores such phenomena by
> measurement with the aim to inform protocol engineering and practice.
> 
> Many protocol engineering efforts in a standards development context, as well
> as best practices for the operation of IETF-defined protocols, can benefit from
> insight provided by Internet measurements of various kinds. Likewise, Internet
> measurement research efforts can stand to gain from contacts with the IETF.
> The Measurement and Analysis for Protocol Engineering (MAP) Research Group
> aims to provide a forum for interchange between these two communities,
> supporting:
> 
> - exchange of measurement-derived insight,
> - discussion of techniques for measurement relevant for protocol engineering
>   and network operations,
> - collaborations to share data supporting these measurements, and
> - a "landing pad" in general for the Internet measurement community to
>   introduce its efforts to the IETF
> 
> Measurements of any layer of the Internet protocol stack or aspect of Internet
> operations are in-scope for the RG, provided they are relevant to protocol
> engineering work within the IETF, or the operation of IETF protocols.
> 
> Membership
> ----------
> 
> Membership in the MAP RG is open to all interested parties.
> 
> Meetings
> --------
> 
> The MAP RG will meet one to three times per year, as deemed necessary by the
> chairs and according to demand. At least one MAP RG meeting will be co-
> located with an IETF meeting per year. Given the MAP RG's charter to bridge the
> gap between Internet standards and measurement communities, the MAP RG
> may also meet colocated with relevant academic conferences or network
> operator forums, as appopriate.
> 
> Meetings are by default open with open attendance and published proceedings,
> with remote participation and recording as provided by the meeting venue,
> according to the IRTF's IPR policy. This is always the case with at least one MAP
> RG meeting co-located with an IETF meeting noted above. However, as deemed
> necessary, the chairs may hold virtual or physical meetings with restricted
> attendance to discuss observations which cannot be shared openly, provided
> that some outcome of such a meeting may be openly shared with the
> community.
> 
> Chairs
> ------
> 
> Mirja K├╝hlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>; Dave Plonka
> <plonka@akamai.com>;
> 
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Brian