Re: [hops] Questions to ask

Christian Kuhtz <chkuhtz@microsoft.com> Fri, 04 September 2015 16:29 UTC

Return-Path: <chkuhtz@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860551B2F6E for <hops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.602
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h1PP-eU2cXy2 for <hops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:29:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0794.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::794]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D29891B2DE6 for <hops@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:29:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.213.19) by BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.213.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.256.15; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:29:06 +0000
Received: from BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.3.64]) by BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.3.64]) with mapi id 15.01.0256.013; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:29:06 +0000
From: Christian Kuhtz <chkuhtz@microsoft.com>
To: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mirja_K=FChlewind?= <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, "hops@ietf.org" <hops@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [hops] Questions to ask
Thread-Index: AQHQ5xcVSy3TzWRRAk+lPICovuPAkZ4sb0qAgAAfMsA=
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:29:06 +0000
Message-ID: <BLUPR03MB230131EF0F2971503E7A936B2570@BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <55E99EF1.7010300@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D4847D53C@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D4847D53C@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=chkuhtz@microsoft.com;
x-originating-ip: [2001:4898:80e8::6eb]
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR03MB230; 5:NShw0WieOuiIjBgluo0wzEXlpPiQ0XzobgSdq9oMHIYLzHZBV95BYldPyPI0/BFyNt/DhidHoDHTCtVhKmGWg6dJ2GAXz/pYkqhtPH8nDVtc1v6M/V3cGxky7IStgJKYltlYKAcsVGGh7GksGcyOZg==; 24:9qpa3xslhOs2lJo7EgDLLFIzqekl/qrl2jrDkXYrgqMF8/2S1fwcyNsuaBVdnJjYG4pnvIZKlZW65IM3i+9D0houU3S4eVOeky/ZnxAKtWg=; 20:inJwkTQX3J5JDMHkKlqPFjl8T0Yn1MCCWogZ2i9GGQS3KHjUDbYqYBiBPhgkHYBDQaOlfdxo6fgEU2/vdUoNLw==
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR03MB230;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BLUPR03MB2303901144446FEBD553F96B2570@BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:;
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(61425019)(61425018)(601004)(2401001)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(61426019)(61426018)(61427018)(61427019); SRVR:BLUPR03MB230; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR03MB230;
x-forefront-prvs: 06891E23FB
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51874003)(199003)(13464003)(189002)(164054003)(377454003)(10090500001)(46102003)(81156007)(87936001)(106356001)(101416001)(189998001)(99286002)(19580395003)(86362001)(5002640100001)(76176999)(64706001)(86612001)(19580405001)(575784001)(33656002)(5001960100002)(50986999)(54356999)(5003600100002)(106116001)(92566002)(5001830100001)(77156002)(5001770100001)(5001920100001)(10400500002)(5005710100001)(105586002)(74316001)(10290500002)(68736005)(15975445007)(5007970100001)(5001860100001)(76576001)(97736004)(5004730100002)(8990500004)(102836002)(40100003)(2900100001)(2501003)(122556002)(2950100001)(4001540100001)(62966003)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR03MB230; H:BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Sep 2015 16:29:06.2055 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR03MB230
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hops/PK8XdEYbvlkdU_yst4-CfQ0Vz3w>
Cc: Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
Subject: Re: [hops] Questions to ask
X-BeenThere: hops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Measuring deployability of new transport protocols <hops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/hops>, <mailto:hops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hops/>
List-Post: <mailto:hops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hops>, <mailto:hops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 16:29:31 -0000

Michael,

> I think TCPM would also be interested quite a bit in real-world measurement data on impairments resulting from the endsystem network stack itself, e.g., "broken" TCP HW offloading on NICs.

Can you please elaborate what you're referring to?  Are you talking about historic behavior or current state of the art behaviors?

If current state of the art, can you be specific on context please?  

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Christian

-----Original Message-----
From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scharf, Michael (Michael)
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 7:34 AM
To: Mirja Kühlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>;; hops@ietf.org
Cc: Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>;
Subject: Re: [hops] Questions to ask

I think TCPM would also be interested quite a bit in real-world measurement data on impairments resulting from the endsystem network stack itself, e.g., "broken" TCP HW offloading on NICs.

Any data on that would really be welcome in TCPM (in particular in the context of EDO).

Michael


> -----Original Message-----
> From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mirja Kühlewind
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 3:39 PM
> To: hops@ietf.org
> Cc: Brian Trammell
> Subject: [hops] Questions to ask
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> at the last meeting, the main interest of the group (for now as a 
> starting
> point) was to collect and see measurement data. However, collecting 
> random measurement data might not be the most useful thing to do and 
> makes it also often difficult to get access to existing data sets. 
> While the focus of the proposed hops group is clearly on measurement 
> of middlebox impairments, we believe we could even be more specific 
> than that and try to tackle certain questions that you like an answer 
> for or that have been raised lately in some context e.g. other working 
> group.
> 
> One example is on UDP impairments because there are a bunch of new 
> protocols that have chosen to encapsulate over UDP to enable Internet 
> path traversal (or at least make it more likely to be able to 
> connect). The questions here
> are:
> 
> - How likely is it that your traffic will be fully blocked if you use 
> (a new unknown protocol over) UDP?
> 
> - How likely is it that your UDP traffic is throttled to a certain 
> rate while TCP traffic on the same path is not?
> 
> There might be even more questions in this context (but these are the 
> ones we are actually currently working on).
> 
> So now, the purpose of this email is, to collect more of these 
> questions such that we can use this working group as a forum to find a 
> match between people that have a question and people that have the 
> data to (at least
> partially)
> answer that question.
> 
> Therefore please send questions to the list! Or start a discussion on 
> what areas we might want to focus on so that we as a group can try to 
> find the right questions! Or if you have data, tell us which questions 
> you can already answer or at least (at high level) which kind of data 
> you have!
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian and Mirja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> hops mailing list
> hops@ietf.org
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.i
> etf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhops&data=01%7c01%7cchkuhtz%40microsoft
> .com%7c3e26e4bef2a84b2b8f1c08d2b535e560%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011
> db47%7c1&sdata=jrCFwXC5VUY0RMmxX7CyuB%2f1upswnsZvt%2bm11A1ktvQ%3d

_______________________________________________
hops mailing list
hops@ietf.org
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhops&data=01%7c01%7cchkuhtz%40microsoft.com%7c3e26e4bef2a84b2b8f1c08d2b535e560%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=jrCFwXC5VUY0RMmxX7CyuB%2f1upswnsZvt%2bm11A1ktvQ%3d