Re: [HT-rt] [[e-mail]: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World (MaRNEW) Report)]

[Niels ten Oever <[e-mail]>]

Hi Amelia,

We don't need a specific format, we can simply send an email with the
review.

Cheers,

Niels

On 04/09/2018 07:23 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote:
> How easiest to draft?
> 
> i started something here:
> https://github.com/nllz/IRTF-HRPC/pull/221/files#diff-989e50ba297c8bab8fe8fbd3759ac6d2
> 
> 
> there's some semantics in this (first), and then i started the
> evaluation by removing those considerations that i thought were either
> already addressed, or that would best be addressed elsewhere.
> 
> i find it ironic that the telcos don't want to share their APIs /with
> their own customers and users(!)/ out of competition concerns. normally,
> i'm the customer of by telco, i don't compete with it.
> 
> but a big problem in the mobile markets could then be that vertically
> integrated operators can be both mobile OS or mobile app providers /and/
> Mobile Network Operators at the same time. Oh, if only the telcos had
> lobbied for a competetitve market regulation(!) how many of their
> current predicaments (and also end-user human rights concerns) could be
> solved. but ok.
> 
> /end whiny transmission
> 
> amelia
> 
> 
> On 2018-04-09 13:42, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>> Hi Amelia,
>>
>>
>> On 04/08/2018 10:19 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote:
>>> I guess the task is to apply the Human Rights Guidelines from RFC 8280?
>>>
>> Rather the guidelines doc:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines-00
>>
>> And feedback any potentially useful changes.
>>
>>
>>> It's a workshop. As I read the draft report GSMA is defending their
>>> regulatory and commercial interests, and IETF is saying "well, make it
>>> work while stuff is encrypted".
>>>
>>> So do we mean to criticize GSMA's self-perceived political/commercial
>>> interests from a HR perspective?
>>>
>> We seek to understand the potential impact for the ability of end-users
>> to excercise their human rights, a consequence for that could be to
>> criticize the proposed architectural reordering.
>>
>>> ====
>>>
>>> The workshop appears not to have touch on the upcoming ePrivacy
>>> regulation in the EU at all, in spite of it having a fairly big impact
>>> on many GSMA members. In particular, GSMA has been lobbying /against/
>>> the ePrivacy regulation, in spite of the IETF helpfully solving many of
>>> their regulatory challenges under the law.
>> Interesting - this could fall under the privacy part.
>>
>>> Telcos are in the place where they want to sell amounts of data. HTTPS
>>> increases the amount of data, making telco consumer potentially
>> decreases, right?
>>
>>> unhappier. Encryption can also slow stuff down, and while some vendors
>>> say that that's an issue of the past, it's possible that it isn't in for
>>> instance the developing world. Probably Facebook Free Basic connections
>>> have data on this.
>>>
>>> In some countries, notably the UK, telcos may be under obligation to
>>> generally filter connections (ensure they're porn-free). I find that
>>> policy disagreeable, but nevertheless it's there. For telcos it's a
>>> challenge.
>>>
>> This has an impact on FoE. I don't think we need to have an opinion on
>> everything from the get-go, but rather show the (potential) implications.
>>
>>> In Sweden, before the EU open internet regulation entered into effect,
>>> several telcos were investigated for traffic prioritisation (which was
>>> suspected to run contrary to ePrivacy directive obligations not to
>>> monitor traffic). Ironically, the EU open internet law kind of permitted
>>> commercially motivated traffic discrimination so those inquiries have
>>> since been cancelled. The new ANACOM case in Portugal may change this
>>> interpretation of what the open internet regulation says, but I don't
>>> perceive Portugal to be heading in that direction.
>>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Niels
>>
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> Amelia
>>>
>>> On 2018-04-08 12:30, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>>>> Amelia know more about radio networks than I do methinks, but happy to
>>>> do so if Amelia is not available.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Niels
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Blue <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=12687>
>>>> On Apr 7, 2018, at 22:43, Shivan <[e-mail]
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     I could take a look, if someone could work with me.
>>>>
>>>>     On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 11:36 AM Stephane Bortzmeyer
>>>>     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Obvious HR consequences. Any volunteer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>         From: IAB Executive Administrative Manager <[e-mail]
>>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>>>         To: IETF Announcement List <[e-mail]
>>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>>>         Cc: 
>>>>         Bcc: 
>>>>         Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:08:39 -0700
>>>>         Subject: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB
>>>>         Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World
>>>>         (MaRNEW) Report)
>>>>         This is an announcement of an IETF-wide Call for Comment on
>>>>         draft-iab-marnew-report-01.
>>>>
>>>>         The document is being considered for publication as an
>>>>         Informational RFC
>>>>         within the IAB stream, and is available for inspection at:
>>>>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-marnew-report/
>>>>
>>>>         The Call for Comment will last until 2018-05-01. Please send
>>>>         comments to
>>>>         [e-mail]
>>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]> and [e-mail]
>>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Abstract
>>>>
>>>>            The MarNEW workshop aimed to discuss solutions for bandwidth
>>>>            optimisation on mobile networks for encrypted content, as
>>>>         current
>>>>            solutions rely on unencrypted content which is not
>>>>         indicative of the
>>>>            security needs of today's Internet users.  The workshop
>>>>         gathered IETF
>>>>            attendees, IAB members and various organisations involved
>>>>         in the
>>>>            telecommunications industry including original equipment
>>>>            manufacturers and mobile network operators.
>>>>
>>>>            The group discussed the current Internet encryption trends and
>>>>            deployment issues identified within the IETF, and the
>>>>         privacy needs
>>>>            of users which should be adhered.  Solutions designed
>>>>         around sharing
>>>>            data from the network to the endpoints and vice versa were then
>>>>            discussed as well as analysing whether the current issues
>>>>         experienced
>>>>            on the transport layer are also playing a role here.  Content
>>>>            providers and CDNs gave an honest view of their experiences
>>>>         delivery
>>>>            content with mobile network operators.  Finally, technical
>>>>         responses
>>>>            to regulation was discussed to help the regulated
>>>>         industries relay
>>>>            the issues of impossible to implement or bad-for-privacy
>>>>         technologies
>>>>            back to regulators.
>>>>
>>>>            A group of suggested solutions were devised which will be
>>>>         discussed
>>>>            in various IETF groups moving forward.
>>>>         _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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