Re: [HT-rt] [EXTERNAL] Re: HR-RT Review of draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process

Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> Sat, 21 April 2018 22:02 UTC

Return-Path: <lear@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: hr-rt@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hr-rt@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0D112D885 for <hr-rt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 15:02:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.509
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r8G_eoy5R7tt for <hr-rt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 15:02:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE56612D881 for <hr-rt@irtf.org>; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 15:02:23 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7073; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1524348144; x=1525557744; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=SCsYtkMoaFI1NrIWA317CYmJxx5DAUU9NG/tCTaaeZI=; b=EOIYTcO9BiQ00Vqcp0SZtiL5MHX9/C1Coy/MMDTS+5stzLrzbqO4gM1Z 3oNuMcSf8sqyXin+OqoENa3UwXElQkqIktGyrWlYB+mQry/XlZKtpIQSt VFz3dccpJH0BgCIF6gG8ulve+U7zerqdI90HHcEyBgOl0VGuayB/YhnL5 I=;
X-Files: signature.asc : 488
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DcAgCps9ta/xbLJq1cGgEBAQICAQEBCQEBAYMZgSNjKINqiGCODIEPjhKGZggDhGsCgmY3FQECAQEBAQEBAmwohSMBBSNJCgMQCwQUJwMCAkYRBg0GAgEBgmMBgiemXIIcH4gdgh8Pih+BDgEjgmiHc4JUApdzCIM8gVGJLQaBNIYWIoRikC2BJTIigVIzGggbFTuCQ4IgFxGOCD0wkCgBAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.49,308,1520899200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="3283048"
Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 21 Apr 2018 22:02:21 +0000
Received: from [10.61.96.89] (dhcp-10-61-96-89.cisco.com [10.61.96.89]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w3LM2KkL014352; Sat, 21 Apr 2018 22:02:20 GMT
To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>, Niels ten Oever <lists@digitaldissidents.org>, "hr-rt@irtf.org" <hr-rt@irtf.org>, "draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <d0739bb2-626e-8aa3-f22f-d51b07dfdacf@digitaldissidents.org> <21952.1524157167@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <7B17FF2E-4393-4644-998B-16462F71A00F@qti.qualcomm.com> <22946590-de79-a2ab-9cf8-be9bcec50b73@cisco.com> <2F97BE9D-2EC3-499E-BDD4-7B9A05DB77D4@nbcuni.com> <12e7f4b8-969c-535c-23dc-d922d78b0bb6@gmail.com> <eab130e6-6248-26ec-c049-36f6e7efcad1@cisco.com> <08288F5F-A28E-446A-A94D-72D96A77649F@nbcuni.com>
From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=lear@cisco.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFMe1UQBCADdYOS5APDpIpF2ohAxB+nxg1GpAYr8iKwGIb86Wp9NkK5+QwbW9H035clT lpVLciExtN8E3MCTPOIm7aITPlruixAVwlBY3g7U9eRppSw9O2H/7bie2GOnYxqmsw4v1yNZ 9NcMLlD8raY0UcQ5r698c8JD4xUTLqybZXaK2sPeJkxzT+IwupRSQ+vXEvFFGhERQ88zo5Ca Sa1Gw/Rv54oH0Dq2XYkO41rhxQ60BKZLZuQK1d9+1y3I+An3AJeD3AA31fJZD3H8YRKOBgqe ILPILbw1mM7gCtCjfvFCt6AFCwEsjITGx55ceoQ+t5B5XGYJEppMWsIFrwZsfbL+gP31ABEB AAHNJUVsaW90IExlYXIgPGxlYXJAb2Zjb3Vyc2VpbXJpZ2h0LmNvbT7CwHsEEwECACUCGwMG CwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJTHtXCAhkBAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozBNoH/j0Mdnyg CgNNmI4DyL9mGfTJ/+XiTxWXMK4TTszwwn/tsXjyPQWjoO6nYqz5i96ItmSpkelSGVpzU+LK LQxSjFeUvKw23bp1rVecfGR+OENSE1m6KfFj3vtzQOZ2/FgK210MWnlYNNyAHX6Pf6hKInTP v6LbZiAQMCmf0aPvRbk/aPSNJAuIKrLrrCgAlwelrTavFsSwnKI3dhSG8DJ9+z/uiXDiHYra Ub3BKp5K/x71Zd8hUsWm2simnE/6HvZaZz7CC29JSZ/5gGtNB3OMNKLzLWUbQacF3IKxpW66 ZFYFYnlBV4jRnKlmb40YcEXWVJkkVC8g+/J9Qo6R8BdmSTXOwE0EUx7VRAEIALRZXth1u/3n FgY+G2FN0KEEik+2Xsk8JX9zr/eISa+Ol8a4U1orgxpyP2V7bQQDkDUEfs+Asagc6I8zrk3K xGln3pFFVfdM18uaEYwWvmE84Y12r7FwYdW62bA9X1Ttsp5Q1GI8XHdh0SQTF12pXYTwWW1P THYVIp7bGzM88cHqBW0xyRflu4j2nUrd9tWFd28SRxhj+MHQkQkbKFLloRty3lwdS8MCRPzX 9gUrkl+DxFHC7WrW3Vi4glI5YBlD0n2hSyDoP1GkKVT60gUGh7eJOnUBR8lzKm5wYqAtgq2m 79rKBylA40diRhbnTTeY+ytqMWFF5UXm97Jwxsezi7kAEQEAAcLAXwQYAQIACQUCUx7VRAIb DAAKCRCHtmtG2dJ6M5K5CADbunatgHsqHbR3KbpXxzralakEcdODGv/fbN6/EdKJeXrG9QKD lPxZTB9STw6+ANwESsr9uUMAxdDNKDeynjnQmFHxGdcdcXlnPZPThfseeUhUkbB/YKOfDIQA kKozNoKYj6Dcia+D/wvifIEW+GUUcO/6Qi8yK6PLJyM8C7vHEqmUGzX8gTCYOgAyOd4WZrC9 95CfB0yFIorw+MpK7MZTm5SbGPcYF9Gq9MzSqmaEw8U6YOElKYfnkcsCTLYyWaolhck+3/0R 9ISEWK5rUzqAuK40S4+Sn7yNycdCoqvQh4e3xSpzAu3aYZ8jKXQVV0X2G9Y+M1HMZuCqhPUO LTdF
Message-ID: <b2eff805-5b7e-9fee-762b-0d8328880e0c@cisco.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 00:02:20 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <08288F5F-A28E-446A-A94D-72D96A77649F@nbcuni.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vCgD5OLu249ItbbYBNnHteCdxblXuXBrE"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hr-rt/6zUgYkXaW1aJnF2hsHclGfWw-FQ>
Subject: Re: [HT-rt] [EXTERNAL] Re: HR-RT Review of draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process
X-BeenThere: hr-rt@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Human Rights Protocol Considerations Review Team <hr-rt.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hr-rt>, <mailto:hr-rt-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hr-rt/>
List-Post: <mailto:hr-rt@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hr-rt-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hr-rt>, <mailto:hr-rt-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 22:02:25 -0000

Glenn,


On 21.04.18 16:55, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote:
> Commenting on Brian’s response to my comments and to Eliot’s response
> to Brian.
>
> On Apr 21, 2018, at 1:30 AM, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com
> <mailto:lear@cisco.com>> wrote:
>
>> IMHO the way to read Section 3.3 is precisely to list aspirational
>> requirements.  That having been said, a reality check: my guess is
>> that AMSL and others will have a hard enough time evaluating against
>> the previous sections.  3.3 probably needs to be viewed in two lights:
>>
>>   * A bonus.  You get it when you get it, but you don't cry when you
>>     don't.
>>   * Something the Secretariat should track.
>>
>
> IMHO I disagree, what currently is in 3.3 is not aspiration, the items
> are obtainable in many venues we already use.  The items are in 3.3
> not because they are not obtainable, they are there because the WG did
> not find consensus to make either critical (3.1) or important (3.2).

You're right and I was unclear: my point was really that if we are going
to list any aspirational requirements they have to go into Section 3.3
lest we have no hotels from which to select, and that for those that
gain WG consensus there is still value of listing them there.  As I
wrote in the bullets, these are requirements that are likely to be
gotten when you can get them, and they certainly are gotten from time to
time.   Also, the word "aspirational" isn't really good.  Many of the
requirements being discussed could certainly be met in some venues.
Whether those are otherwise acceptable to the IETF is an entirely
different matter.

Eliot