Re: [HT-rt] [[e-mail]: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World (MaRNEW) Report)]

[Niels ten Oever <[e-mail]>]

Hi Amelia,


On 04/08/2018 10:19 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote:
> I guess the task is to apply the Human Rights Guidelines from RFC 8280?
>

Rather the guidelines doc:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines-00

And feedback any potentially useful changes.


> It's a workshop. As I read the draft report GSMA is defending their
> regulatory and commercial interests, and IETF is saying "well, make it
> work while stuff is encrypted".
> 
> So do we mean to criticize GSMA's self-perceived political/commercial
> interests from a HR perspective?
> 

We seek to understand the potential impact for the ability of end-users
to excercise their human rights, a consequence for that could be to
criticize the proposed architectural reordering.

> ====
> 
> The workshop appears not to have touch on the upcoming ePrivacy
> regulation in the EU at all, in spite of it having a fairly big impact
> on many GSMA members. In particular, GSMA has been lobbying /against/
> the ePrivacy regulation, in spite of the IETF helpfully solving many of
> their regulatory challenges under the law.

Interesting - this could fall under the privacy part.

> 
> Telcos are in the place where they want to sell amounts of data. HTTPS
> increases the amount of data, making telco consumer potentially

decreases, right?

> unhappier. Encryption can also slow stuff down, and while some vendors
> say that that's an issue of the past, it's possible that it isn't in for
> instance the developing world. Probably Facebook Free Basic connections
> have data on this.
> 
> In some countries, notably the UK, telcos may be under obligation to
> generally filter connections (ensure they're porn-free). I find that
> policy disagreeable, but nevertheless it's there. For telcos it's a
> challenge.
> 

This has an impact on FoE. I don't think we need to have an opinion on
everything from the get-go, but rather show the (potential) implications.

> In Sweden, before the EU open internet regulation entered into effect,
> several telcos were investigated for traffic prioritisation (which was
> suspected to run contrary to ePrivacy directive obligations not to
> monitor traffic). Ironically, the EU open internet law kind of permitted
> commercially motivated traffic discrimination so those inquiries have
> since been cancelled. The new ANACOM case in Portugal may change this
> interpretation of what the open internet regulation says, but I don't
> perceive Portugal to be heading in that direction.
> 

Cheers,

Niels

> best regards,
> 
> Amelia
> 
> On 2018-04-08 12:30, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>> Amelia know more about radio networks than I do methinks, but happy to
>> do so if Amelia is not available.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Niels
>>
>> Sent from Blue <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=12687>
>> On Apr 7, 2018, at 22:43, Shivan <[e-mail]
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>>     I could take a look, if someone could work with me.
>>
>>     On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 11:36 AM Stephane Bortzmeyer
>>     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>>         Obvious HR consequences. Any volunteer?
>>
>>
>>
>>         ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>         From: IAB Executive Administrative Manager <[e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         To: IETF Announcement List <[e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>         Cc: 
>>         Bcc: 
>>         Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:08:39 -0700
>>         Subject: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB
>>         Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World
>>         (MaRNEW) Report)
>>         This is an announcement of an IETF-wide Call for Comment on
>>         draft-iab-marnew-report-01.
>>
>>         The document is being considered for publication as an
>>         Informational RFC
>>         within the IAB stream, and is available for inspection at:
>>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-marnew-report/
>>
>>         The Call for Comment will last until 2018-05-01. Please send
>>         comments to
>>         [e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]> and [e-mail]
>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>.
>>
>>
>>         Abstract
>>
>>            The MarNEW workshop aimed to discuss solutions for bandwidth
>>            optimisation on mobile networks for encrypted content, as
>>         current
>>            solutions rely on unencrypted content which is not
>>         indicative of the
>>            security needs of today's Internet users.  The workshop
>>         gathered IETF
>>            attendees, IAB members and various organisations involved
>>         in the
>>            telecommunications industry including original equipment
>>            manufacturers and mobile network operators.
>>
>>            The group discussed the current Internet encryption trends and
>>            deployment issues identified within the IETF, and the
>>         privacy needs
>>            of users which should be adhered.  Solutions designed
>>         around sharing
>>            data from the network to the endpoints and vice versa were then
>>            discussed as well as analysing whether the current issues
>>         experienced
>>            on the transport layer are also playing a role here.  Content
>>            providers and CDNs gave an honest view of their experiences
>>         delivery
>>            content with mobile network operators.  Finally, technical
>>         responses
>>            to regulation was discussed to help the regulated
>>         industries relay
>>            the issues of impossible to implement or bad-for-privacy
>>         technologies
>>            back to regulators.
>>
>>            A group of suggested solutions were devised which will be
>>         discussed
>>            in various IETF groups moving forward.
>>         _______________________________________________
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>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
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>>
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