Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World (MaRNEW) Report)]
Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net> Wed, 02 May 2018 08:00 UTC
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From: Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net>
To: Amelia Andersdotter <amelia@article19.org>, Shivan <shivankaul.1993@gmail.com>
Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>, hr-rt@irtf.org, Gordon Lennox <gordon@lennox.paris>
References: <20180407153608.7v4zzra6qy3w3gfz@nic.fr> <CAG3f7Mg0zNbEJKEB5H38swyd3A6qAB5ogTaQ_2BLMP6j=xL2zQ@mail.gmail.com> <0adcac93-cf66-414b-85c2-119eea9f42e3@nielstenoever.net> <2aadec40-1583-e15b-6f66-f15e626382e4@article19.org> <f2647c8e-bb44-07fe-3575-4b4216db32b4@nielstenoever.net> <b5856287-8949-4d1b-73b9-3ef63967a73e@article19.org> <3215126c-a7b4-4399-31b9-c0f867188d61@nielstenoever.net>
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Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 09:59:45 +0200
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Subject: Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World (MaRNEW) Report)]
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Hi Shivan and Amelia, Has this been submitted? The official deadline was yesterday, but it might still be accepted if it is submitted today. Best, Niels On 04/11/2018 11:07 AM, Niels ten Oever wrote: > Hi Amelia, > > We don't need a specific format, we can simply send an email with the > review. > > Cheers, > > Niels > > On 04/09/2018 07:23 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote: >> How easiest to draft? >> >> i started something here: >> https://github.com/nllz/IRTF-HRPC/pull/221/files#diff-989e50ba297c8bab8fe8fbd3759ac6d2 >> >> >> there's some semantics in this (first), and then i started the >> evaluation by removing those considerations that i thought were either >> already addressed, or that would best be addressed elsewhere. >> >> i find it ironic that the telcos don't want to share their APIs /with >> their own customers and users(!)/ out of competition concerns. normally, >> i'm the customer of by telco, i don't compete with it. >> >> but a big problem in the mobile markets could then be that vertically >> integrated operators can be both mobile OS or mobile app providers /and/ >> Mobile Network Operators at the same time. Oh, if only the telcos had >> lobbied for a competetitve market regulation(!) how many of their >> current predicaments (and also end-user human rights concerns) could be >> solved. but ok. >> >> /end whiny transmission >> >> amelia >> >> >> On 2018-04-09 13:42, Niels ten Oever wrote: >>> Hi Amelia, >>> >>> >>> On 04/08/2018 10:19 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote: >>>> I guess the task is to apply the Human Rights Guidelines from RFC 8280? >>>> >>> Rather the guidelines doc: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines-00 >>> >>> And feedback any potentially useful changes. >>> >>> >>>> It's a workshop. As I read the draft report GSMA is defending their >>>> regulatory and commercial interests, and IETF is saying "well, make it >>>> work while stuff is encrypted". >>>> >>>> So do we mean to criticize GSMA's self-perceived political/commercial >>>> interests from a HR perspective? >>>> >>> We seek to understand the potential impact for the ability of end-users >>> to excercise their human rights, a consequence for that could be to >>> criticize the proposed architectural reordering. >>> >>>> ==== >>>> >>>> The workshop appears not to have touch on the upcoming ePrivacy >>>> regulation in the EU at all, in spite of it having a fairly big impact >>>> on many GSMA members. In particular, GSMA has been lobbying /against/ >>>> the ePrivacy regulation, in spite of the IETF helpfully solving many of >>>> their regulatory challenges under the law. >>> Interesting - this could fall under the privacy part. >>> >>>> Telcos are in the place where they want to sell amounts of data. HTTPS >>>> increases the amount of data, making telco consumer potentially >>> decreases, right? >>> >>>> unhappier. Encryption can also slow stuff down, and while some vendors >>>> say that that's an issue of the past, it's possible that it isn't in for >>>> instance the developing world. Probably Facebook Free Basic connections >>>> have data on this. >>>> >>>> In some countries, notably the UK, telcos may be under obligation to >>>> generally filter connections (ensure they're porn-free). I find that >>>> policy disagreeable, but nevertheless it's there. For telcos it's a >>>> challenge. >>>> >>> This has an impact on FoE. I don't think we need to have an opinion on >>> everything from the get-go, but rather show the (potential) implications. >>> >>>> In Sweden, before the EU open internet regulation entered into effect, >>>> several telcos were investigated for traffic prioritisation (which was >>>> suspected to run contrary to ePrivacy directive obligations not to >>>> monitor traffic). Ironically, the EU open internet law kind of permitted >>>> commercially motivated traffic discrimination so those inquiries have >>>> since been cancelled. The new ANACOM case in Portugal may change this >>>> interpretation of what the open internet regulation says, but I don't >>>> perceive Portugal to be heading in that direction. >>>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Niels >>> >>>> best regards, >>>> >>>> Amelia >>>> >>>> On 2018-04-08 12:30, Niels ten Oever wrote: >>>>> Amelia know more about radio networks than I do methinks, but happy to >>>>> do so if Amelia is not available. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Niels >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Blue <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=12687> >>>>> On Apr 7, 2018, at 22:43, Shivan <shivankaul.1993@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:shivankaul.1993@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I could take a look, if someone could work with me. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 11:36 AM Stephane Bortzmeyer >>>>> <bortzmeyer@nic.fr <mailto:bortzmeyer@nic.fr>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Obvious HR consequences. Any volunteer? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: IAB Executive Administrative Manager <execd@iab.org >>>>> <mailto:execd@iab.org>> >>>>> To: IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org >>>>> <mailto:ietf-announce@ietf.org>> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Bcc: >>>>> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:08:39 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB >>>>> Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World >>>>> (MaRNEW) Report) >>>>> This is an announcement of an IETF-wide Call for Comment on >>>>> draft-iab-marnew-report-01. >>>>> >>>>> The document is being considered for publication as an >>>>> Informational RFC >>>>> within the IAB stream, and is available for inspection at: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-marnew-report/ >>>>> >>>>> The Call for Comment will last until 2018-05-01. Please send >>>>> comments to >>>>> architecture-discuss@ietf.org >>>>> <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org> and iab@iab.org >>>>> <mailto:iab@iab.org>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Abstract >>>>> >>>>> The MarNEW workshop aimed to discuss solutions for bandwidth >>>>> optimisation on mobile networks for encrypted content, as >>>>> current >>>>> solutions rely on unencrypted content which is not >>>>> indicative of the >>>>> security needs of today's Internet users. The workshop >>>>> gathered IETF >>>>> attendees, IAB members and various organisations involved >>>>> in the >>>>> telecommunications industry including original equipment >>>>> manufacturers and mobile network operators. >>>>> >>>>> The group discussed the current Internet encryption trends and >>>>> deployment issues identified within the IETF, and the >>>>> privacy needs >>>>> of users which should be adhered. Solutions designed >>>>> around sharing >>>>> data from the network to the endpoints and vice versa were then >>>>> discussed as well as analysing whether the current issues >>>>> experienced >>>>> on the transport layer are also playing a role here. Content >>>>> providers and CDNs gave an honest view of their experiences >>>>> delivery >>>>> content with mobile network operators. Finally, technical >>>>> responses >>>>> to regulation was discussed to help the regulated >>>>> industries relay >>>>> the issues of impossible to implement or bad-for-privacy >>>>> technologies >>>>> back to regulators. >>>>> >>>>> A group of suggested solutions were devised which will be >>>>> discussed >>>>> in various IETF groups moving forward. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HR-rt mailing list >>>>> HR-rt@irtf.org <mailto:HR-rt@irtf.org> >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hr-rt >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> HR-rt mailing list >>>>> HR-rt@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hr-rt >>>>> >> >
- [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <draft-… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Shivan
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Amelia Andersdotter
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Amelia Andersdotter
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Amelia Andersdotter
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Shivan
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [HT-rt] [execd@iab.org: Call for Comment: <dr… Shivan